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Thread: Brexit thread

  1. #31

    Re: Brexit thread


  2. #32

    Re: Brexit thread

    Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

    It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

    I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

    We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

    My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
    32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
    EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
    €1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

    Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???

  3. #33

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

    It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

    I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

    We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

    My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
    32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
    EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
    €1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

    Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???
    Finally somebody talking about the real issues, as opposed to project fear.

  4. #34

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Finally somebody talking about the real issues, as opposed to project fear.
    There are 32 thousand civil servants working in the EU then? Seems reasonable, how many are there in the UK?
    The EU civil service salaries takes up 3% of their total budget

  5. #35

    Re: Brexit thread

    I read today that the Royal college of Nursing, British medical association and the Royal College of Midwives are against Brexit.

    Then you have Nigel Farage, Arron Banks Boris Johnson and Liam Fox.

    Says it all for me.

  6. #36

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

    It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

    I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

    We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

    My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
    32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
    EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
    €1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

    Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???
    Are you annoyed about our cut or the absolute level?

    If it is the former then surely this is just a sum and part of the negotiation and if it is the latter then you should have raised it years ago...

    Did you think it would be cheap to run a supranational organisation that does our bidding around the world???

  7. #37

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    I read today that the Royal college of Nursing, British medical association and the Royal College of Midwives are against Brexit.

    Then you have Nigel Farage, Arron Banks Boris Johnson and Liam Fox.

    Says it all for me.
    The fact that Brexiteers have no problem being intrinsically associated with Mr Banks says a lot.

  8. #38

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

    It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

    I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

    We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

    My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
    32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
    EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
    €1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

    Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???
    I know it might sound strange but the the amount of financial liability we agree to pay the EU is pretty minor in terms of the issues we have in leaving.

    Once we triggered Article 50 to leave the EU within two years we seemed a little surprised about what happened next. Some thought that this would trigger the negotiation of the easiest trade deal with EU in history.

    Unfortunately the EU had different ideas. They proposed and we bowed down to a sequential negotiation where we first agreed a withdrawal agreement before moving to an agreement of the future relationship once we have left on 29th March 2019.

    The withdrawal agreement needed to cover at the least three key points around the status of citizens post withdrawal, the treatment of the Irish Border and the net financial contributions the UK would make for its assets and liabilities.

    In December 2017 Theresa May came back from Brussels in triumph that she had agreed with an EU on these points allowing discussions around future trade relationships to commence. The agreement included the level of financial commitment we would make, INCLUDING PENSIONS, and a backstop on the island of Ireland.

    Since then the UK recognised that it needed more time to negotiate its future relationship and the EU agreed a transitional period where from March 2019 for 21 months to 31st December 2020 where for all intents and purposes we will take EU rules, have no say in them and pay more for the privilege.

    We finally presented the Chequers proposal that has been rejected by most sides within the UK and without. The aim now in the time remaining of Article 50 to conclude the withdrawal agreement, including the Irish backstop which since we signed up to in December 2017 has been in some dispute and enter into a political agreement on our future relationship that all can be agreed by the Conservative Party, Parliament the EU its 27 remaining member states and its Parliament before we officially leave on 29th March.

    If we don't we leave with no deal with all that entails. The good this from your point of view is that is that if that happens then we don't pay any contributions for pension provisions. Sounds great when you put like that I guess!!

  9. #39

    Re: Brexit thread

    'No deal is better than a bad deal' appears to have become 'come on guys please, this bad deal is better than no deal'.

    Rhetoric meets reality.

  10. #40

    Re: Brexit thread

    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...mpression=true

    This article sums up May's issues quite nicely

  11. #41

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...mpression=true

    This article sums up May's issues quite nicely
    Good analysis around the UK's negotiations with itself. However, no sooner do you post something on this subject that the mathematics (math ffs) change. Now around 84 loyalists after Jo Johnson resigns!

  12. #42

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    'No deal is better than a bad deal' appears to have become 'come on guys please, this bad deal is better than no deal'.

    Rhetoric meets reality.



  13. #43

    Re: Brexit thread

    It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

    We are just used as a political football.

  14. #44

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

    We are just used as a political football.
    For a labour voter you sure do love May and dislike labour.

  15. #45

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

    We are just used as a political football.
    We were used as a political foootball when call me Dave called an unnecessary referendum as he was scared of Nigel and the Daily Mail and wanted to prove what a tough guy he was
    Before buggering off.

    So I think some of your anger should be thrown in the way of the old Etonian pig shagger

  16. #46

  17. #47

    Re: Brexit thread

    May on the edge.

    Laura Kuenssberg

    Verified account

    @bbclaurak
    Follow Follow @bbclaurak
    More
    Senior tory tells me Brexiteer anger so high that seems likely there will be a call for no confidence vote tomorrow - letters going in -

    10:09 AM - 14 Nov 2018 https://twitter.com/bbclaurak

  18. #48

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

    We are just used as a political football.
    Great summary, the only incey wincey hole in it is that the majority of the groups openly opposed to this deal already have power - remainer tories, erg, dup, scottish tories

    This isn't about power. It is about taking this supposed mandate and delivering something that absolutely nobody wanted in the name of compromise. She was told at the very start that it was stupid, she told us to trust her because she is a fantastic negotiator and now 2.5 years after the vote she is in a dark room trying to convince even her feckin pals to support it. Tomorrow once she has threatened them into submission she will have to start working on the people who don't like her.

  19. #49

    Re: Brexit thread

    I think this is what Bone was alluding to

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/1...r-theresa-may/

  20. #50

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

    We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

    Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

    Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......
    And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

    Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .

  21. #51

    Re: Brexit thread

    So what will today bring?

    Part of me wishes this deal goes through as it at least prevents the shit storm of queues at the borders to get trade through.

  22. #52

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

    Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .
    I would add the words "through her attachment to New Labour" after "she is one of many good socialists , lost to us".

    To repeat what I posted on the other board a while ago;-

    "I've not paid too much attention to what's in this 500 page document yet, but doesn't the response to it so far show the idiocy of just having a yes or no question on the 2016 Referendum ballot paper? It's just showing that there were so many different versions of Brexit covered in the total Leave vote - there will be some who are happy to proceed with it, but others who will be convinced it's a sell out and, to quote a phrase I've heard used quite often in the last twenty four hours, the worst of all worlds, yet they are all supposed to be on the same side!"

  23. #53

    Re: Brexit thread

    Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.

  24. #54

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Great summary, the only incey wincey hole in it is that the majority of the groups openly opposed to this deal already have power - remainer tories, erg, dup, scottish tories

    This isn't about power. It is about taking this supposed mandate and delivering something that absolutely nobody wanted in the name of compromise. She was told at the very start that it was stupid, she told us to trust her because she is a fantastic negotiator and now 2.5 years after the vote she is in a dark room trying to convince even her feckin pals to support it. Tomorrow once she has threatened them into submission she will have to start working on the people who don't like her.
    I would have hated to take up this mantle up , as there is no win .

    The deal was always going to be one of compromise , and when the vote was made had not idea of what they were really voting for , or voted for a single issue or two .

    I still think this issue is being used as a political battle in every quarter ,in every party ,and all of the parties are vying for a popular vote ,trouble is the country is split down the middle as is the parties .

    I'm guessing those very parties are rubbing their hands in glee , with a no vote on the deal approaching , if that happens I'm hopping the main opposition parties come forward with their version of the deal to put it right ( part of me believes they don't have one, or do any better with regards to getting a deal, accepting to all )

    I think folk should realise there is no good news on this one or golden opportunity.

  25. #55

    Re: Brexit thread

    Three resignations by 10 am - after all of the months of inertia things are certainly happening!

  26. #56

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

    Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .
    Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.

  27. #57

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.

  28. #58

  29. #59

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.
    So? She’s very good at holding the govt to account as the committee meetings show.

  30. #60

    Re: Brexit thread

    Daniel Norcross on The Cricket Social just now - will the Sri Lankan innings last longer than the current government?

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