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Thread: Brexit thread

  1. #1

    Brexit thread

    To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

    We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

    Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

    Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......

  2. #2

    Re: Brexit thread

    I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want

  3. #3

    Re: Brexit thread

    The lack of planning everywhere is incredibly disturbing, but it will probably be visible most quickly at the ports.

  4. #4

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want
    zzzzzzz......

  5. #5

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    The lack of planning everywhere is incredibly disturbing, but it will probably be visible most quickly at the ports.
    Shocking isn’t it? Every day something is in the news which makes me think ‘what the ****??’

  6. #6

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

    We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

    Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

    Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......
    If you want to dig a little deeper on where we are and where we might be headed then some of Ivan Rogers's recent speeches are intelligent and thought provoking without being weighed down by dogma.

    http://www.britishirishchamber.com/2...l-gala-dinner/

  7. #7

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want
    I don't even know where to start with this rubbish

  8. #8

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I don't even know where to start with this rubbish
    I've just described your European wet dream, and I sincerely hope is comes to pass

  9. #9

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I've just described your European wet dream, and I sincerely hope is comes to pass
    You have no idea what you are talking about.

  10. #10

    Re: Brexit thread

    Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.

  11. #11

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.

    Don’t think I said that in my original message.
    I think as we head towards your utopia I do find it hard to believe that we have a PM refusing to guarantee medical supplies in terms of a no deal Brexit.

    Still Brexit means Brexit and it’s one in the eye for Liberal elites like myself eh?

  12. #12

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.
    'Any means necessary' is a bit melodramatic, they want another vote as they think public opinion might have changed as new information has been brought to people's attention.

  13. #13

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.
    Why should there be any shame in wanting to remain in the EU?

  14. #14

    Re: Brexit thread

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...80943?mode=amp

    This seems like a lot of business to lose

  15. #15

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...80943?mode=amp

    This seems like a lot of business to lose
    Project fear, stop it

  16. #16

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!

  17. #17

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!
    What would that have to do with Brexit? We could do that now if we were stupid enough to follow through on populist right wing ideas

  18. #18

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!
    Have you seen Split, the film with James McAvoy?

  19. #19

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    What would that have to do with Brexit? We could do that now if we were stupid enough to follow through on populist right wing ideas
    You would have to be pretty short on brain cells to not realise that Brexit done 'well' means more civil servants and more travelling.

  20. #20

    Re: Brexit thread

    What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

    Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
    Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

    Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
    Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

    Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
    Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
    Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

    Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
    Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
    Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

    The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

    The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

    British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.

  21. #21

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

    Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
    Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

    Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
    Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

    Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
    Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
    Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

    Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
    Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
    Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

    The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

    The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

    British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.

    The salaries are high no doubt .

    It’s worth pointing out though and hate to answer a question with a question but do you think Liam ‘trade deal easiest in history’ David ‘we hold the cards’ Davis before buggering off having achieved nothing, Boris Matheus can go whistle’ Johnson before again buggering off have served us well with the wages they’re on?

    What we you say about Barnier he’s done his job in a professional manner representing his members without resorting to shit analogies and lies just to appeal to the right wing press.

    The Brexit negotiators have been giving it the big come on then if you’re hard enough before looking rather silly and the reputation of the UK has been damaged by this costly farce with each week which has cost us far more then the ‘Eurocrats’ (copyright any crap Sun headline) wages.

    I can’t remember anything about ‘adequate’ food supplies on the side of a red bus can you?

  22. #22

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

    Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
    Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

    Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
    Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

    Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
    Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
    Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

    Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
    Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

    Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
    Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

    The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

    The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

    British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.
    On the high side but that is from the perspective of somebody who lives in a country which has seen a real terms wage decrease/stagnation (depending on what figures you believe) for at least 10 years.

    Conflating a 240k salary with criticisms of corporate greed over CEOs that take home £10s of millions while their companies are in decline is a bit mad.

  23. #23

    Re: Brexit thread

    It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

    I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

    In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

    https://news.sky.com/story/carillion...ilure-11209838

  24. #24

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want
    Dont give up

    we can have a vote and decide again

    then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do

  25. #25

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Dont give up

    we can have a vote and decide again

    then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do
    You realise that the vote isnt random right? If remain wins a second vote then it means people have changed their mind, it is called democracy.

    If you are one of these Brexiteers who would want to leave even if the public no longer want to then you are no better than a remainer who wants to stay by 'any means necessary'.

    The leave campaign promised something undeliverable and there is no getting away from that.

  26. #26

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Dont give up

    we can have a vote and decide again

    then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do
    Much like what happened when the original vote from the seventies was overturned then. It amuses me when Leavers say democracy should be respected following the referendum, when there had been politicians, business people and men and women working in the media who had been banging on about having another vote on Europe for the last three or four decades - Nigel Farage even said that he would campaign for another vote if the outcome in 2016 had been 52/48 in favour of remain.

  27. #27

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

    I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

    In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

    https://news.sky.com/story/carillion...ilure-11209838
    Exactly what I thought when reading about those salaries - they are big (too big in my view), but they look quite modest when compared to some in the private sector.

  28. #28

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

    I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

    In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

    https://news.sky.com/story/carillion...ilure-11209838
    This is one of the blatant hypocrisies of modern day UK politics and the public isn't switched on enough to see through it.

    The same people who criticise high senior level public sector pay, defend high private sector pay even when the companies in question rely primarily on public contracts.

    The kind of crappy monopolising privatisation that our government's appear to love blurs these lines to the point where they are impossible to distinguish

    University pay is a great example, it is seen as public money (and draws a chorus of gasps when it is published) even though they are effectively run as businesses in a competitive marketplace, the kicker however is that if the kids don't go on to get good jobs Joe public covers their fee loan + some healthy interest.

  29. #29

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    You realise that the vote isnt random right? If remain wins a second vote then it means people have changed their mind, it is called democracy.

    If you are one of these Brexiteers who would want to leave even if the public no longer want to then you are no better than a remainer who wants to stay by 'any means necessary'.

    The leave campaign promised something undeliverable and there is no getting away from that.
    So if the 2nd ( or 3rd or 4th ) vote was still leave, the remainers would be happy with that and not whine about 30% of the population didnt vote, so they might not want to leave, so we should remain ?? ?

  30. #30

    Re: Brexit thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    So if the 2nd ( or 3rd or 4th ) vote was still leave, the remainers would be happy with that and not whine about 30% of the population didnt vote, so they might not want to leave, so we should remain ?? ?
    I can't speak for all people who voted remain but a vote on the deal makes sense to me given how turbulent the negotiations have been compared to how the public were told they would be.

    A second vote also puts to bed your final point, if people don't vote after knowing how close it is then they clearly dont care. I would imagine there were remainers and leavers who were convinced not to vote by polls that suggested a clear win for remain so a second vote would give a clearer picture all round.

    I would then be in favour of following the public's choice. At the moment we don't know what the public's choice is. It certainly isn't chequers, I don't think people want a no deal (although I would prefer that to a half way solution like chequers).

    The main logical criticism of a 2nd vote is really simple but not somewhere Brexiteers want to go because it smears then as much as anyone else. The public is still horribly uninformed about brexit, they don't know what any of the outcomes entail. They don't even know what no deal means ( and we would obviously need a clear picture of what remaining means too for the vote to be legitimate)

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