Brexit thread

[life on mars]

I just say it as I see it. If you are talking rubbish then I am not going to stroke your hair and tell you it is true.

Hey, hey , no stroking,you'll end up in trouble , dontstrokeme#.

[CardiffIrish2]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Yeah at that point I did think ‘’Woaaaahh’

[life on mars]

I listened, watched and read a lot of media today on Brexit ,my god it's not easy to decide on it's so divisive everyone is swimming in different ways ,picking on individual parts that effects just them ,it seems no one can pull togther a single commonality agreement , what a burden and tough task this is .

[Rjk]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

[Eric Cartman]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

Almost certainly our chosen way of surviving post 'no deal'.

[life on mars]

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

[Eric Cartman]

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

[life on mars]

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

[Eric Cartman]

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

[the other bob wilson]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...war-with-spain

[life on mars]

Let's just say your version of events does not include many, if any, "grey areas" (granted, you're far from alone in being like that - there are plenty on both sides who feel the same way), so I'd say you're seeing things in the same black and white terms you accused Cyril of displaying.

Also, no matter the context in which it's used, I think plenty of Germans would, rightly, be upset to see the term "fourth Reich" applied to them currently - the connotations are obvious even if you say that was not your intention.

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .

[severncity]

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .

Cyril wrote

Conversely the proponents of playing hardball with the EU always warned we had the upper hand because of the suffering it would cause in the German automotive industry. For some this should be an early warning to Jerry not to mess with dear old Blighty!

implying that IF German car makers are worried that Brexit will have a negative effect on their industry THEN they will not punish Leave voting areas in the U.K.

The two concepts are not either/or. Being worried about Brexit has not stopped them punishing Llanelli, it seems. In the press releases plant closures were blamed on “the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

Please quote a statement from me displaying similar black-and-white thinking.

Do you think there’s any truth in Harry Enfield’s comical portrayal of a German or is he just a gammony bigot?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Just for clarity the thrust of my response was to gently ridicule the far reached theory that the closure of the Llanelli factory was a punishment beating by a multi-national German manufacturer rather than a hard headed commercial decision. This was coupled with the intimation this happened as the CEO is clearly a very close friend of Merkel's (based on his participation in a visit to the White House). My response was as serious as I took your original argument.

Since then you have reinforced your line of argument a couple of times with the belief of the forthcoming Fourth Reich (of course this will look more like the First or Second Reich rather than the nasty Third one). Apparently this realm is possible because the ECB, though headed by an Italian, is based in Frankfurt and Macron used to be an investment banker for two years (although with Rothchild rather than Goldman Sachs). It seems theories based on little fact and leaps of faith is the vogue these days.

I am untroubled by your thoughts on the colour of my thinking though it seems people can take umbrage at such accusations!

[severncity]

Just for clarity the thrust of my response was to gently ridicule the far reached theory that the closure of the Llanelli factory was a punishment beating by a multi-national German manufacturer rather than a hard headed commercial decision. This was coupled with the intimation this happened as the CEO is clearly a very close friend of Merkel's (based on his participation in a visit to the White House). My response was as serious as I took your original argument.

Since then you have reinforced your line of argument a couple of times with the belief of the forthcoming Fourth Reich (of course this will look more like the First or Second Reich rather than the nasty Third one). Apparently this realm is possible because the ECB, though headed by an Italian, is based in Frankfurt and Macron used to be an investment banker for two years (although with Rothchild rather than Goldman Sachs). It seems theories based on little fact and leaps of faith is the vogue these days.

I am untroubled by your thoughts on the colour of my thinking though it seems people can take umbrage at such accusations!

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/...527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/...527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

Ah special insight not available to the average person...... now I understand.

[Wales-Bales]

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

[Eric Cartman]

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/...527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

You talk about how the political world works but what benefit is there to punishing Llanelli? I could understand using the plant/jobs as leverage to make them vote to remain but why close a plant (profitable by your assessment) after the vote has taken place.

[CardiffIrish2]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...war-with-spain

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius 😂😂👍

[life on mars]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

How anyone will be able to really measure the jobs test post and pre brexit is beyond me, as the worlds labour markets evolve naturally in so many ways, with or without Brexit ,at least the doomsday( every one is leaving) hasn't materialized yet .

[Eric Cartman]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

That is a cracker of a comparison.

[life on mars]

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then😁

[Eric Cartman]

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then��

Not sure that is a problem unique to the EU!!

[Wales-Bales]

Brexit: Donald Tusk tells European Union to approve his secret backroom deal with May that chains the UK to the EU forever

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46330380

[Wales-Bales]

Tory MPs Go To War Over John Hayes 'Utter Cock' Knighthood

https://www.iaindale.com/articles/to...ock-knighthood