Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
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Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
It's time for you to don a yellow vest.Originally Posted by life on mars
I'd join you but there's so many great shows on the telly to watch it'll prove tricky for me to join you. But jolly good luck.
Did you vote for a sovereign parliament or a Theresa May led dictatorship?
Fair play though, cracking attempt to use almost every tabloid brexit cliche in one sentence.
Are you suggesting you are against the democratic process that brought about this contempt of Parliament?
In any case, here's how I see things at the moment.
Parliamentary sovereignty requires that MPs back any Brexit proposals or they get thrown out. Parliament won't back May's "deal", it certainly won't back "no-deal". Some will then say that MPs should be bound by the will of the people, but because there are so many possible Brexit scenarios (May's deal, Norway style, Canada, no-deal), that's impossible to interpret. Many say leave means leave, but there are reputable, unbiased polls that suggest as many as half of leave voters wanted to remain in the single market and customs union. It's a mess created by the lack of clarity of what Brexit meant in 2016 - hell, there were leave campaigners promising lots of different flavours of Brexit from soft to no-deal.
All of this means Parliament will be unable to decide and so there's either going to be a general election or a second referendum (or possibly both). It's unavoidable. It would be a binding referendum that could not be overruled, unlike the last one. That'll lead to arguments over what questions would be on a second referendum. 3 questions (no-deal/ Norway style/remain) will split the leave vote, leaving remain to romp home; a shoot out of remain/no-deal would result in another remain romp as those preferring a soft-Brexit are more likely to remain; or a shoot out of remain/Norway-style, which would be objected to by many who want a hard-Brexit.
Whatever happens over the next 4 months, it'll be fascinating times in politics.
There were secret remainers within the leave campaign and vagueness was all part of the plan. A second referendum was always going to be Plan C. May and the EU leadership are doing their best to ensure that we never fully leave.
I've heard it all now.
Simple question. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain? Actually, I'll answer it for you. The answer is no. It would have been a straightforward remain victory as all polls have suggested.
The leave vote needed to appeal to everyone who might consider leaving the EU, whether hard or soft, deal or no deal. Split the leave vote and leave would have lost. That decision, no doubt enforced by the leave campaign, has caused all the problems.
You have your opinion and I have mine. I described in detail two years ago what would happen, and here we are in the position that I predicted.
Mine is hardly an opinion.
Perhaps you need to answer my question then. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain?
Cameron didn't want to leave and he never thought we would vote to leave, but as a double-lock the terms of leaving had to be vague, so that no leave outcome could be decided in the first referendum.
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