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Thread: Government in contempt of Parliament

  1. #1

    Government in contempt of Parliament


  2. #2

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    May the Zionist hag is on borrowed time.

  3. #3

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .

  4. #4

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
    Why didnít they just disclose the original document in the first place instead of this bollocks which was bound to backfire???

  5. #5

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Government released yesterday what they claimed was a detailed summary of the legal advice given. Many suspect that the possibility of the UK becoming trapped in the Customs Union was left out of that happy-clappy release in order to deceive.

  6. #6

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
    It's time for you to don a yellow vest.

    I'd join you but there's so many great shows on the telly to watch it'll prove tricky for me to join you. But jolly good luck.

  7. #7

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    The pound hit an 18-month low versus the US dollar in the aftermath of that Parliamentary vote.

  8. #8

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Why didnít they just disclose the original document in the first place instead of this bollocks which was bound to backfire???
    It is a strange one, Its either a covert operation , or they are utterly bonkers, lol.

  9. #9

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
    Did you vote for a sovereign parliament or a Theresa May led dictatorship?



    Fair play though, cracking attempt to use almost every tabloid brexit cliche in one sentence.

  10. #10

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Any way but agree / delay /stop Brexit should be the banner , what a Democratic country are we as all parties do there best to stop the will of the people,which was the biggest vote seen in my time ,whatever side your on .
    Are you suggesting you are against the democratic process that brought about this contempt of Parliament?

    In any case, here's how I see things at the moment.

    Parliamentary sovereignty requires that MPs back any Brexit proposals or they get thrown out. Parliament won't back May's "deal", it certainly won't back "no-deal". Some will then say that MPs should be bound by the will of the people, but because there are so many possible Brexit scenarios (May's deal, Norway style, Canada, no-deal), that's impossible to interpret. Many say leave means leave, but there are reputable, unbiased polls that suggest as many as half of leave voters wanted to remain in the single market and customs union. It's a mess created by the lack of clarity of what Brexit meant in 2016 - hell, there were leave campaigners promising lots of different flavours of Brexit from soft to no-deal.

    All of this means Parliament will be unable to decide and so there's either going to be a general election or a second referendum (or possibly both). It's unavoidable. It would be a binding referendum that could not be overruled, unlike the last one. That'll lead to arguments over what questions would be on a second referendum. 3 questions (no-deal/ Norway style/remain) will split the leave vote, leaving remain to romp home; a shoot out of remain/no-deal would result in another remain romp as those preferring a soft-Brexit are more likely to remain; or a shoot out of remain/Norway-style, which would be objected to by many who want a hard-Brexit.

    Whatever happens over the next 4 months, it'll be fascinating times in politics.

  11. #11

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Everybody laughed two years ago when I said this is what would happen

  12. #12

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Are you suggesting you are against the democratic process that brought about this contempt of Parliament?

    In any case, here's how I see things at the moment.

    Parliamentary sovereignty requires that MPs back any Brexit proposals or they get thrown out. Parliament won't back May's "deal", it certainly won't back "no-deal". Some will then say that MPs should be bound by the will of the people, but because there are so many possible Brexit scenarios (May's deal, Norway style, Canada, no-deal), that's impossible to interpret. Many say leave means leave, but there are reputable, unbiased polls that suggest as many as half of leave voters wanted to remain in the single market and customs union. It's a mess created by the lack of clarity of what Brexit meant in 2016 - hell, there were leave campaigners promising lots of different flavours of Brexit from soft to no-deal.

    All of this means Parliament will be unable to decide and so there's either going to be a general election or a second referendum (or possibly both). It's unavoidable. It would be a binding referendum that could not be overruled, unlike the last one. That'll lead to arguments over what questions would be on a second referendum. 3 questions (no-deal/ Norway style/remain) will split the leave vote, leaving remain to romp home; a shoot out of remain/no-deal would result in another remain romp as those preferring a soft-Brexit are more likely to remain; or a shoot out of remain/Norway-style, which would be objected to by many who want a hard-Brexit.

    Whatever happens over the next 4 months, it'll be fascinating times in politics.
    Thanks It's a great summary .

    I would suggest parliaments behaviour suggests they are not concerned what the people voted for , they just want to see the first referendum result over turned ?

    My guess this was always going to be the case / plan, we were never going to leave were we ? , Europe with May have created this scenario.

    MP's from all parties have frustrate the process to an extent
    the remainers will win.

    They will wear down the electorate until the exit is stopped in its tracks .

    Perhaps it's the best way forward ,as the Brexiteers in both major parties are loons.

  13. #13

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Thanks It's a great summary .

    I would suggest parliaments behaviour suggests they are not concerned what the people voted for , they just want to see the first referendum result over turned ?

    My guess this was always going to be the case / plan, we were never going to leave were we ? , Europe with May have created this scenario.

    MP's from all parties have frustrate the process to an extent
    the remainers will win.

    They will wear down the electorate until the exit is stopped in its tracks .

    Perhaps it's the best way forward ,as the Brexiteers in both major parties are loons.
    What do you want MPs who think this is a shit deal to do? Vote for it anyway?

  14. #14

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Everybody laughed two years ago when I said this is what would happen
    Everyone is in on it?

  15. #15

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    because there are so many possible Brexit scenarios (May's deal, Norway style, Canada, no-deal), that's impossible to interpret. Many say leave means leave, but there are reputable, unbiased polls that suggest as many as half of leave voters wanted to remain in the single market and customs union. It's a mess created by the lack of clarity of what Brexit meant in 2016 - hell, there were leave campaigners promising lots of different flavours of Brexit from soft to no-deal.
    There were secret remainers within the leave campaign and vagueness was all part of the plan. A second referendum was always going to be Plan C. May and the EU leadership are doing their best to ensure that we never fully leave.

  16. #16

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    There were secret remainers within the leave campaign and vagueness was all part of the plan. A second referendum was always going to be Plan C. May and the EU leadership are doing their best to ensure that we never fully leave.
    I've heard it all now.

    Simple question. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain? Actually, I'll answer it for you. The answer is no. It would have been a straightforward remain victory as all polls have suggested.

    The leave vote needed to appeal to everyone who might consider leaving the EU, whether hard or soft, deal or no deal. Split the leave vote and leave would have lost. That decision, no doubt enforced by the leave campaign, has caused all the problems.

  17. #17

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I would suggest parliaments behaviour suggests they are not concerned what the people voted for.
    So what did the people vote for? No-deal? Norway style? May's deal? Don't say leave, as we know leave meant a lot of different things.

  18. #18

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I've heard it all now.

    Simple question. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain? Actually, I'll answer it for you. The answer is no. It would have been a straightforward remain victory as all polls have suggested.

    The leave vote needed to appeal to everyone who might consider leaving the EU, whether hard or soft, deal or no deal. Split the leave vote and leave would have lost. That decision, no doubt enforced by the leave campaign, has caused all the problems.
    You have your opinion and I have mine. I described in detail two years ago what would happen, and here we are in the position that I predicted.

  19. #19

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You have your opinion and I have mine. I described in detail what would happen, and here we are as I predicted.
    Mine is hardly an opinion.

    Perhaps you need to answer my question then. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain?

  20. #20

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    The other option to consider May knew the deal was crap , she creates a scenario the first vote is defeated, she goes back to Europe and demands unilateral right to declare an end to backstop due to the defeat , Europe blinks , DUP and Brexiteers feel they have morale victory , she wins the second vote .

  21. #21

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So what did the people vote for? No-deal? Norway style? May's deal? Don't say leave, as we know leave meant a lot of different things.
    Brexit means Brexit apparently. Or perhaps sort of.

  22. #22

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Mine is hardly an opinion.

    Perhaps you need to answer my question then. When the wording of the question in the referendum was drafted and debated, as it must have been, would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain?
    Cameron didn't want to leave and he never thought we would vote to leave, but as a double-lock the terms of leaving had to be vague, so that no leave outcome could be decided in the first referendum.

  23. #23

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Cameron didn't want to leave and he never thought we would vote to leave, but as a double-lock the terms of leaving had to be vague, so that no leave outcome could be decided in the first referendum.
    That doesn't make sense whatsoever. Again, I'll ask. Would the leave campaign have been happy for it to have been a straight shoot out between leave everything, no-deal and remain?

  24. #24

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    The other option to consider May knew the deal was crap , she creates a scenario the first vote is defeated, she goes back to Europe and demands unilateral right to declare an end to backstop due to the defeat , Europe blinks , DUP and Brexiteers feel they have morale victory , she wins the second vote .
    So what did the people vote for? No-deal? Norway style? May's deal? Don't say leave, as we know leave meant a lot of different things.

  25. #25

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So what did the people vote for? No-deal? Norway style? May's deal? Don't say leave, as we know leave meant a lot of different things.
    Leave was never supposed to win. If you cast your mind back, Boris and Gove were totally shocked to have won. There was no statement on the following morning, and if I remember correctly they went off to a barbecue or something like that. Plan B was to hand over to Theresa May, and then we had the joke leadership contest where everybody fell on their sword, and May became PM unopposed. And now we find out there is a possible 150 year TIP clause in the leave deal that she cooked up with the EU! Cue the calls for a second referendum after two more years of project fear, and it's all very predictable when you know what the game is.

  26. #26

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    If you cast your mind back, Boris and Gove were totally shocked to have won. There was no statement on the following morning, and if I remember correctly they went off to a barbecue or something like that. Plan B was to hand over to Theresa May, and then we had the joke leadership contest where everybody fell on their sword, and May became PM unopposed. And now we find out there is a possible 150 year TIP clause in the leave deal that she cooked up with the EU! Cue the calls for a second referendum after two more years of project fear, and it's all very predictable when you know what the game is.
    That's 3 attempts to answer my question totally ignored.

  27. #27

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    That's 3 attempts to answer my question totally ignored.
    I laid it all out two years ago. Leave wasn't expected to win, and in the remote chance that they did, a contingency plan was already in place. They were never going to be specific about what type of leave was on offer as it would be enforceable! What's so hard to understand?

  28. #28

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Leave was never supposed to win.
    If leave was never supposed to win, why try and appeal to such a broad selection of leave voters, some of whom wanted no deal, some wanted a Norwegian style arrangement, some wanted some future deal with the EU for trade etc etc.

    The best referendum question would have been remain vs no-deal. That would have been something like 62/38 in favour of remain if opinion polls regarding leave voters intentions are accurate. That's why the leave vote had to encompass as many possible scenarios as possible. Whether leave was supposed to lose or not is irrelevant here. Leave was given more of an opportunity to win. That's utterly obvious. That's why I'm certain the leave campaign would have refused a shoot out of remain vs no deal. Your lack of opposition to this tells me a lot.

  29. #29

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    I laid it all out two years ago. Leave wasn't expected to win, and in the remote chance that they did, a contingency plan was already in place. They were never going to be specific about what type of leave was on offer as it would be enforceable! What's so hard to understand?
    And a fourth. Tell me what you said 2 years ago.

  30. #30

    Re: Government in contempt of Parliament

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    If leave was never supposed to win, why try and appeal to such a broad selection of leave voters, some of whom wanted no deal, some wanted a Norwegian style arrangement, some wanted some future deal with the EU for trade etc etc.

    The best referendum question would have been remain vs no-deal. That would have been something like 62/38 in favour of remain if opinion polls regarding leave voters intentions are accurate. That's why the leave vote had to encompass as many possible scenarios as possible. Whether leave was supposed to lose or not is irrelevant here. Leave was given more of an opportunity to win. That's utterly obvious. That's why I'm certain the leave campaign would have refused a shoot out of remain vs no deal. Your lack of opposition to this tells me a lot.
    It's immaterial because they didn't want any actionable leave result, the intention was to stay in the EU! They already had the contingency plan ready and waiting in the form of Theresa May.

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