Wow 60k to 100k to drive a tube train

[Auntie Andy]

Simply because it is the working classes, including NHS workers etc, who have to pay the increased fares to pay for the drivers "decent wages". It's all a matter of fairness and perceived contribution to society. Tube drivers performs a service but their pay is out of proportion to do the service they provide and their skills considering they do not require any level of education to do their job.

No everyone else’s pay is out of proportion. Nurses haven’t had a decent pay rise for 10 years yes that’s 10 bloody years. Good luck to train drivers. Up the workers

[Eric Cartman]

If the train driver was on 100 grand it would be, i doubt there are many of them on that. So, should the train drivers have their wages cut or should nurses receive a pay rise, you don't really make it clear what should happen. Here's what i think. Train drivers deserve every penny they get, it's a decent wage, but not life changing. Nurses should receive a hefty pay rise, i should know, i'm married to one. The problem is that the unions are falling into line and are lazy, Health workers are being shafted and the unions are piss weak. ASLEF defend their members. I don't know why we have to compare, we are all workers and deserve decent pay for our labour, that's all of us. ****ing tories and New Labour before them are intent on eroding working conditions and pay.

I think you have highlight an area where so much of what is written is massively hypocritical. During the last GE there was a lot made of the fact that 50-100k isn't a big wage in London when Labour were proposing a tax rise for people earning more than 80k. Now, because we are talking about train drivers, this exact same level of pay is obscene and should be forced downwards to match the public's expectation of how much they should earn.

[Eric Cartman]

Wizzing round a tube sat inside on your arse pushing two buttons, earning £100k. Working class !!!

Is Wayne Rooney now upper class then?

[Eric Cartman]

Simply because it is the working classes, including NHS workers etc, who have to pay the increased fares to pay for the drivers "decent wages". It's all a matter of fairness and perceived contribution to society. Tube drivers performs a service but their pay is out of proportion to do the service they provide and their skills considering they do not require any level of education to do their job.

Tube drivers are employed by TFL which is pretty much a public sector organisation but most train drivers are employed by private companies, presumably you hold similar views about wildly out of control salaries that exist all over the private sector in this country?

[Penybont Blue]

People in unions. That don't seem to grasp how hard their forebears worked and sacrificed to get them what they have today. Like reasonable hours, decent working conditions and weekends FFS!

I work on the Railways. The last three do not exist, especially the weekends

[CardiffIrish2]

Wizzing round a tube sat inside on your arse pushing two buttons, earning £100k. Working class !!!

A couple of things:
Job I’ve applied is nowhere near 100k
Secondly typical response of someone who feels we should all be beholden to our lords and masters and know our place.

[Auntie Andy]

A couple of things:
Job I’ve applied is nowhere near 100k
Secondly typical response of someone who feels we should all be beholden to our lords and masters and know our place.

This ^ why would someone be against a fellow working class person earning a very good salary. Typical of the race to the bottom clan in this county.

[splott parker]

Why do some people think it’s wrong for working class people fighting for the best deal possible? Maybe it’s because it’s such a rare thing now, many have rolled over and had their bellies tickled by ruthless employers and that’s become the norm. Not a bad thing to have a strong union with bollocks and conviction, much more admirable than Dickens like forelock tugging.

[Vindec]

No everyone else’s pay is out of proportion. Nurses haven’t had a decent pay rise for 10 years yes that’s 10 bloody years. Good luck to train drivers. Up the workers

That might be true but how do you go about increasing everyone's salaries when increased salaries mean higher prices and inflation which affects us all? Throwing money at the problem is not the answer. Higher taxes means nobody is better off and has fiscal consequences that have got governments in a mess on previous occasions.

[JDerrida]

This ^ why would someone be against a fellow working class person earning a very good salary. Typical of the race to the bottom clan in this county.

If Labour got in they have promised to increase the minimum wage to £10 per hour (28% increase on present rate).
Sounds great, but what about the pay differentials that are in place at present?
Would those with some more experience or skill on say £9 per hour at present, expect to also be paid exactly the same on £10 per hour or would there be the same or similar pay differentials that are presently in place.
Why should someone with experience or more responsibility have less of a pay increase than those without experience or qualifications?
Increase minimum wage by 28%, then those on relatively low wages will want similar pay increases to maintain similar pay differentials.
As will most other employees. So majority of employees will expect to see around a 20% pay increase.
Labour costs increasing by around 20% will inevitably see goods and other services become more costly, well in excess of 10% inflation.
What about councils with their banding structure?
We'll see Council Tax hikes unheard of in the last 10 years.
Same applies to most aspects of British life.
With the cost of living increasing by a huge amount, it leaves those on the minimum wage of £10 not a great deal better off.
Benefits will have to increase in line with inflation.
The country will become bankrupt again in the space of 3 years.
It's short sighted, sound bites at it's worst!
It will get votes, but at what cost to the country?

[the other bob wilson]

If Labour got in they have promised to increase the minimum wage to £10 per hour (28% increase on present rate).
Sounds great, but what about the pay differentials that are in place at present?
Would those with some more experience or skill on say £9 per hour at present, expect to also be paid exactly the same on £10 per hour or would there be the same or similar pay differentials that are presently in place.
Why should someone with experience or more responsibility have less of a pay increase than those without experience or qualifications?
Increase minimum wage by 28%, then those on relatively low wages will want similar pay increases to maintain similar pay differentials.
As will most other employees. So majority of employees will expect to see around a 20% pay increase.
Labour costs increasing by around 20% will inevitably see goods and other services become more costly, well in excess of 10% inflation.
What about councils with their banding structure?
We'll see Council Tax hikes unheard of in the last 10 years.
Same applies to most aspects of British life.
With the cost of living increasing by a huge amount, it leaves those on the minimum wage of £10 not a great deal better off.
Benefits will have to increase in line with inflation.
The country will become bankrupt again in the space of 3 years.
It's short sighted, sound bites at it's worst!
It will get votes, but at what cost to the country?

Reading all of that, I can only assume that you have voluntarily waived any pay increases you've been offered in the past decade.

[the other bob wilson]

At the start of this decade this country was recovering from a financial hit caused by greedy bankers and Conservative and Labour governments that went deregulation crazy when it came to the financial sector. Back then the mantra from Government was "we're all in this together" - if anyone was idiotic enough to believe that rubbish at the time, then they've surely been corrected as to that mistake by now.

A lot of people on this board are old enough to remember the seventies when the pendulum had swung too much towards the workers and it certainly was possible for the strongest unions to "hold the country to ransom". That line still gets trotted out today although the last time I can honestly remember it happening was in the 78/79 "winter of discontent" - a few months later, the Thatcher Government was elected and that pendulum swung firmly back towards the bosses - in fact, it's not stopped heading in that direction in the forty years which followed.

The forelock tuggers in this thread truly baffle me when poverty levels are increasing

https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-...rthern-ireland

food bank usage is increasing

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8317001.html

and yet they think we should all know our place and accept what our betters tell us. The last forty years have seen the weakest and poorest in our society (there are those who wanted such a thing to no longer exist of course) suffer far more as, far from progressing like you would expect in the fifth largest economy in the world, their living standards have declined.

Is it any wonder that political extremism on the left and right (with all of the attendant violation that usually guarantees) is on the rise? Far better surely for the country for those who are just about managing, to quote our Prime Minister, be able to improve their living standards through better wages than turn to one of the alternatives on offer out of frustration and feelings they are being ignored.

[JDerrida]

Reading all of that, I can only assume that you have voluntarily waived any pay increases you've been offered in the past decade.

Where did I say anything remotely like that.
Cost of living pay rises are one thing.
28% pay increases will destroy the country.
Can't you see that?

[the other bob wilson]

Where did I say anything remotely like that.
Cost of living pay rises are one thing.
28% pay increases will destroy the country.
Can't you see that?

Sorry, I just assumed you'd be doing your bit to try and avoid the coming disaster.

[Auntie Andy]

At the start of this decade this country was recovering from a financial hit caused by greedy bankers and Conservative and Labour governments that went deregulation crazy when it came to the financial sector. Back then the mantra from Government was "we're all in this together" - if anyone was idiotic enough to believe that rubbish at the time, then they've surely been corrected as to that mistake by now.

A lot of people on this board are old enough to remember the seventies when the pendulum had swung too much towards the workers and it certainly was possible for the strongest unions to "hold the country to ransom". That line still gets trotted out today although the last time I can honestly remember it happening was in the 78/79 "winter of discontent" - a few months later, the Thatcher Government was elected and that pendulum swung firmly back towards the bosses - in fact, it's not stopped heading in that direction in the forty years which followed.

The forelock tuggers in this thread truly baffle me when poverty levels are increasing

https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-...rthern-ireland

food bank usage is increasing

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8317001.html

and yet they think we should all know our place and accept what our betters tell us. The last forty years have seen the weakest and poorest in our society (there are those who wanted such a thing to no longer exist of course) suffer far more as, far from progressing like you would expect in the fifth largest economy in the world, their living standards have declined.

Is it any wonder that political extremism on the left and right (with all of the attendant violation that usually guarantees) is on the rise? Far better surely for the country for those who are just about managing, to quote our Prime Minister, be able to improve their living standards through better wages than turn to one of the alternatives on offer out of frustration and feelings they are being ignored.

Well said sir.

[Eric Cartman]

Where did I say anything remotely like that.
Cost of living pay rises are one thing.
28% pay increases will destroy the country.
Can't you see that?

Can I ask how old you are and whether you are in work or retired?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

A couple of things:
Job I’ve applied is nowhere near 100k
Secondly typical response of someone who feels we should all be beholden to our lords and masters and know our place.

wasn't suggesting you're not working class - was talking about the drivers

[A Quiet Monkfish]

At the start of this decade this country was recovering from a financial hit caused by greedy bankers and Conservative and Labour governments that went deregulation crazy when it came to the financial sector. Back then the mantra from Government was "we're all in this together" - if anyone was idiotic enough to believe that rubbish at the time, then they've surely been corrected as to that mistake by now.

A lot of people on this board are old enough to remember the seventies when the pendulum had swung too much towards the workers and it certainly was possible for the strongest unions to "hold the country to ransom". That line still gets trotted out today although the last time I can honestly remember it happening was in the 78/79 "winter of discontent" - a few months later, the Thatcher Government was elected and that pendulum swung firmly back towards the bosses - in fact, it's not stopped heading in that direction in the forty years which followed.

The forelock tuggers in this thread truly baffle me when poverty levels are increasing

https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-...rthern-ireland

food bank usage is increasing

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8317001.html

and yet they think we should all know our place and accept what our betters tell us. The last forty years have seen the weakest and poorest in our society (there are those who wanted such a thing to no longer exist of course) suffer far more as, far from progressing like you would expect in the fifth largest economy in the world, their living standards have declined.

Is it any wonder that political extremism on the left and right (with all of the attendant violation that usually guarantees) is on the rise? Far better surely for the country for those who are just about managing, to quote our Prime Minister, be able to improve their living standards through better wages than turn to one of the alternatives on offer out of frustration and feelings they are being ignored.

Life's tough. I remember delivering yellow pages with the wife and kids trying to afford the monthly mortgage payment at 15 % interest [ a Conservative Govt.], but you just get on with it.

It's interesting that 'poverty' and food banks started increasing as wages started going up and unemployment started falling, and also when the Govt. introduced the living wage.

And the JRF ? Not exactly politically-central, and anyway, in light of the sort of organisations they funded in the past and still do, a thoroughly unpleasant one too..

[CardiffIrish2]

Well I found out today I won’t be joining the easy well paid life of the rail network ‘thanks but apply in 6 months’
Back to my two zero hour jobs and self employed sales 😂😂😂

[Eric Cartman]

Well I found out today I won’t be joining the easy well paid life of the rail network ‘thanks but apply in 6 months’
Back to my two zero hour jobs and self employed sales 😂😂😂

Sorry to hear that, hopefully you didn't pay a deposit for the top hat, cane and monocle.

[ken smith]

Life's tough. I remember delivering yellow pages with the wife and kids trying to afford the monthly mortgage payment at 15 % interest [ a Conservative Govt.], but you just get on with it.

It's interesting that 'poverty' and food banks started increasing as wages started going up and unemployment started falling, and also when the Govt. introduced the living wage.

And the JRF ? Not exactly politically-central, and anyway, in light of the sort of organisations they funded in the past and still do, a thoroughly unpleasant one too..

Has unemployment really started falling though.

[CardiffIrish2]

Sorry to hear that, hopefully you didn't pay a deposit for the top hat, cane and monocle.

It’s the Rolls Royce I was looking forward to....

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Well I found out today I won’t be joining the easy well paid life of the rail network ‘thanks but apply in 6 months’
Back to my two zero hour jobs and self employed sales ������

nothing wrong with self-employed, commission only sales. Often pays lot more than those 'BDM' and 'Executive' Sales jobs..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If Labour got in they have promised to increase the minimum wage to £10 per hour (28% increase on present rate).
Sounds great, but what about the pay differentials that are in place at present?
Would those with some more experience or skill on say £9 per hour at present, expect to also be paid exactly the same on £10 per hour or would there be the same or similar pay differentials that are presently in place.
Why should someone with experience or more responsibility have less of a pay increase than those without experience or qualifications?
Increase minimum wage by 28%, then those on relatively low wages will want similar pay increases to maintain similar pay differentials.
As will most other employees. So majority of employees will expect to see around a 20% pay increase.
Labour costs increasing by around 20% will inevitably see goods and other services become more costly, well in excess of 10% inflation.
What about councils with their banding structure?
We'll see Council Tax hikes unheard of in the last 10 years.
Same applies to most aspects of British life.
With the cost of living increasing by a huge amount, it leaves those on the minimum wage of £10 not a great deal better off.
Benefits will have to increase in line with inflation.
The country will become bankrupt again in the space of 3 years.
It's short sighted, sound bites at it's worst!
It will get votes, but at what cost to the country?

A Tory neo con Christian , no surprise

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Nationalise the public utilities and wages will settle

Ergo ........ everyone's happy

Socialism