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Thread: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

  1. #31

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How did you get any of that from what I wrote? Try again
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-1bn-last-year

  2. #32

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    That’s only just over three weeks of the Brexit dividend so that’s not too much to worry about.

  3. #33

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets


  4. #34

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets


  5. #35

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    1.2 billion spending idea.
    Domestic violence and abuse cost the UK an estimated £15.7 billion in. 2008 (Walby 2009). ... term savings for a range of organisations, including the NHS and criminal justice system.

  6. #36

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    9 ways to counteract the Evil Maybot savings :
    Nine ways to save the NHS – by healthcare professionals

    https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...y_to_clipboard

  7. #37

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    The group, which includes the chairs of the British Medical Association and the Academy of Medical Royal colleges, said the NHS spent £1.7bn on negligence claims last year and the annual cost has doubled since 2010/11.

    They added that the estimated total liabilities, which is the cost if all current claims are successful, stands at £65bn, up from £29bn in 2014-15.

  8. #38

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    1.2 billion spending idea.
    Domestic violence and abuse cost the UK an estimated £15.7 billion in. 2008 (Walby 2009). ... term savings for a range of organisations, including the NHS and criminal justice system.
    Add to that the £3.5 billion each year that alcohol abuse costs the NHS and about 70% of that cost falls on hospitals.

    What an appalling set of statistics. Remember that when someone you know is denied some particular cancer treatment because it is too expensive.

  9. #39

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    No I mean this bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Something getting abused isn't a reason to stop doing it altogether. When that dick ran people over on Westminster bridge did you campaign to ban the car?
    How did you get this?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I'm not aware of any dicks being ran over , but if a person was run over, I'd show them some sympathy and respect , by not calling them a dick

  10. #40

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Todays Guardian:
    Smoking and drinking costs the NHS 6
    billion annyally , the NHS will now invest
    £ 183 million to help smokers.

    Whose paying for all this ??

    The thread was started on the basis of cost cutting.

  11. #41

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Todays Guardian:
    Smoking and drinking costs the NHS 6
    billion annyally , the NHS will now invest
    £ 183 million to help smokers.

    Whose paying for all this ??

    The thread was started on the basis of cost cutting.
    I think the reason no one else is here anymore is because they don't understand what point you are trying to make

  12. #42

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I think the reason no one else is here anymore is because they don't understand what point you are trying to make
    To be honest other than you and a few others , no one is bothered with the politics talking bollocks board anyway, but I'm sure you got the thrust of the posts and wastage in the NHS ,
    which is over and above the underfunding issue, but hey, let's hide away from that and just use the NHS as a political football ,bugger the real issues and folk affected by the abuses going on in the NHS ,those nuts are way too tough to crack , ,much easier to blame someone else, and turn a blind eye.

  13. #43

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    To be honest other than you and a few others , no one is bothered with the politics talking bollocks board anyway, but I'm sure you got the thrust of the posts and wastage in the NHS ,
    which is over and above the underfunding issue, but hey, let's hide away from that and just use the NHS as a political football ,bugger the real issues and folk affected by the abuses going on in the NHS ,those nuts are way too tough to crack , much easier to blame someone else, and turn a blind eye.
    The things you cited aren't waste (except health tourism, but how you tackle that without denying treatment to 000's of genuine people I don't know - maybe you can tell me), they are problems within society which have an effect on the health budget. A drunk isn't any more culpable for their poor choices than a motorbike rider who smashes into a lamppost. What are your solutions? it seems like you doing exactly the bold text above and blaming everyone else.

    My point is simple, we spend 20-25 percent less per person when compared with quite a few similar countries within Europe. It does affect outcomes and if we want to stop staggering from winter crisis to winter crisis then this should be addressed. You have this mangled view of the public sector that we all love wasting money (and we wouldn't possibly be trying to tackle it ALREADY), to anyone with 1/4 of a brain its a load of bollocks and certainly an insult to those working hard in healthcare, policing and all other vital jobs that are performed on your behalf.

  14. #44

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    The things you cited aren't waste (except health tourism, but how you tackle that without denying treatment to 000's of genuine people I don't know - maybe you can tell me), they are problems within society which have an effect on the health budget. A drunk isn't any more culpable for their poor choices than a motorbike rider who smashes into a lamppost. What are your solutions? it seems like you doing exactly the bold text above and blaming everyone else.

    My point is simple, we spend 20-25 percent less per person when compared with quite a few similar countries within Europe. It does affect outcomes and if we want to stop staggering from winter crisis to winter crisis then this should be addressed. You have this mangled view of the public sector that we all love wasting money (and we wouldn't possibly be trying to tackle it ALREADY), to anyone with 1/4 of a brain its a load of bollocks and certainly an insult to those working hard in healthcare, policing and all other vital jobs that are performed on your behalf.
    Its impossible to match the NHS with other European countries the main elements are there, but it’s a different image. There are vast differences with thier organisational structures, and how they administer their insurance’ system .

    For example French citizens sign up for extra mutual insurance to top thier health .

    Almost all dentists in Belgium are private.

    Sweden which many applaud does not provide all treatment free at the point of access .GP visits are also charged for .

    Germans pay extra though wages ,the unemployed are funded separately though a form of seperate social fund.

    Across Europe theirs a bigger mix of state, private, mutual and friendly societies hospitals, many variations in funding ,many pay extra .

    Anyone with a 1/3 of a brain would know you cannot match these health services.


    Perhaps the generosity of our NHS is the reason why ther is health tourism ,what is pretty clear other European countries fund differently, and professionally. They dont simply bung money at it for the sake of it, its managed more efficiently and not used as an attempt to gain political browny points.

  15. #45

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Its impossible to match the NHS with other European countries the main elements are there, but it’s a different image. There are vast differences with thier organisational structures, and how they administer their insurance’ system .

    For example French citizens sign up for extra mutual insurance to top thier health .

    Almost all dentists in Belgium are private.

    Sweden which many applaud does not provide all treatment free at the point of access .GP visits are also charged for .

    Germans pay extra though wages ,the unemployed are funded separately though a form of seperate social fund.

    Across Europe theirs a bigger mix of state, private, mutual and friendly societies hospitals, many variations in funding ,many pay extra .

    Anyone with a 1/3 of a brain would know you cannot match these health services.


    Perhaps the generosity of our NHS is the reason why ther is health tourism ,what is pretty clear other European countries fund differently, and professionally. They dont simply bung money at it for the sake of it, its managed more efficiently and not used as an attempt to gain political browny points.
    Yes they pay extra, exactly what I'm bloody suggesting. I am not saying deliver the extra in a wheelbarrow to each hospital and say 'spend it how you like', obviously you try to spend any increase in funding as efficiently as possible. Where did you think I was proposing to get the money from? Theresa May's own stash?

    You seem to want richer people to pay a bit more for healthcare but you don't want to call it increased funding?

    You need to quit the obsession with health tourism, even in the article you cited the context was that it was a very small issue.

  16. #46

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Would there need to be any cuts if a small fraction of the £3.5 billion alcohol abuse related costs could be cut? £85 million is just 2.5% of £3.5 billion! It is a national disgrace that billions of £s are wasted the way they are. It's quite handy to deflect the blame onto health tourism as this appeals to Daily Mail and Sun readers and conveniently sidesteps the real problem.

  17. #47

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    I wonder what it costs the NHS to treat motorbike riders who have crashed into lamp-posts compared to the costs associated with alcohol abuse and domestic violence?

  18. #48

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    I wonder what it costs the NHS to treat motorbike riders who have crashed into lamp-posts compared to the costs associated with alcohol abuse and domestic violence?
    It is probably less but the point is that everything is an unnecessary risk to someone - 'You mean you didn't cross at the crossing, well sorry sir but you will need to pay for treatment'.

  19. #49

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It is probably less but the point is that everything is an unnecessary risk to someone - 'You mean you didn't cross at the crossing, well sorry sir but you will need to pay for treatment'.

    2% of GDP is spent on "defence". Scrap the army.

  20. #50

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Obiesty now costing NHS 6bn a year, all May's fault dreadful ,dreadful..

  21. #51

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Yes they pay extra, exactly what I'm bloody suggesting. I am not saying deliver the extra in a wheelbarrow to each hospital and say 'spend it how you like', obviously you try to spend any increase in funding as efficiently as possible. Where did you think I was proposing to get the money from? Theresa May's own stash?

    You seem to want richer people to pay a bit more for healthcare but you don't want to call it increased funding?

    You need to quit the obsession with health tourism, even in the article you cited the context was that it was a very small issue.
    I have left numerous post outside of health tourism , try and absorb the detail it's all bloddy waste , its seems we are fast becoming a society that can behave however we like and assume someone pays for our poor decisions , and those in real need for care suffer ,again someone started posted this as an attack on saving £185m, however we as a society are wasting billions on folk who live a life without care or control ,why should the health service ,nurses, innocent people seeking emergency care suffer , because folk are too drunk or high , or drive ,fight , with no due care , demand prescription drugs though GP's, they could fund themselves instead of buying a can of beer or smoking themselves to death ,if your serious about discussing funding, it has to be all embracing, not just a narrow focused view because you hate certain political parties.

  22. #52

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I have left numerous post outside of health tourism , try and absorb the detail it's all bloddy waste , its seems we are fast becoming a society that can behave however we like and assume someone pays for our poor decisions , and those in real need for care suffer ,again someone started posted this as an attack on saving £185m, however we as a society are wasting billions on folk who live a life without care or control ,why should the health service ,nurses, innocent people seeking emergency care suffer , because folk are too drunk or high , or drive ,fight , with no due care , demand prescription drugs though GP's, they could fund themselves instead of buying a can of beer or smoking themselves to death ,if your serious about discussing funding, it has to be all embracing, not just a narrow focused view because you hate certain political parties.
    Stop with this strawman ffs, I haven't mentioned any political party.

    So, broadly speaking, how do you propose we combat these issues? The implication of saying 'treating domestic violence victims is a waste' is either that you don't think we should treat them or you have some magical way of stopping domestic violence.

    When they say x issue costs the NHS y does this include money spent on programs to prevent it? Obesity costs the NHS a shit load yet we see this https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-obesi...e-cut-11598344. Presumably you disagree with the short term nature of this decision?

    The only reason any sane person would cancel a service like this is because they want the NHS to go bankrupt and cease to be viable. I imagine you can guess what happens next to 'rescue' us all?

  23. #53

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It is probably less but the point is that everything is an unnecessary risk to someone - 'You mean you didn't cross at the crossing, well sorry sir but you will need to pay for treatment'.
    Probably less! I suspect it is hugely less. I don't think anyone who crosses the road without using a pedestrian crossing (although being a bit reckless depending on the traffic at the time) sets out to deliberately injure themselves whereas someone who drinks/smokes/eats sugar to excess knows the consequences.

    We now have a sugar tax on sugary drinks with talk of a pudding tax now. Good idea.

    Why not increase the tax on fags and alcohol (e.g. the unit of alcohol price idea) and use the revenue for the NHS? According to the Drinks Aware website the average household spends £8.20 per week on alcoholic products consumed at home and £7.90 per week on drinks consumed elsewhere. I make that £837 p.a. The ONS website states that there are almost 19 million households, so the total amount spent is almost £16 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £1.6 billion – a nice little earner.

    Similarly smoking. The Cancer Research website states that there are nearly 19 million smokers in the UK. Let’s assume each smokes an average of 10 per day. That equates to 69 billion p.a. which in turn equates to 3.4 billion packs of 20. At £7 per pack, that equates to £24 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £2.4 billion – again a nice little earner.

    Finally why not impose extra tax on gambling. £12.6 billion p.a. was earned by the gambling industry in the UK (that’s after payout of winnings!). 10% tax = £1.2 billion.

    That’s potentially a total of £5.2 billion. However the money raised MUST be ring fenced for the NHS.

  24. #54

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Probably less! I suspect it is hugely less. I don't think anyone who crosses the road without using a pedestrian crossing (although being a bit reckless depending on the traffic at the time) sets out to deliberately injure themselves whereas someone who drinks/smokes/eats sugar to excess knows the consequences.

    We now have a sugar tax on sugary drinks with talk of a pudding tax now. Good idea.

    Why not increase the tax on fags and alcohol (e.g. the unit of alcohol price idea) and use the revenue for the NHS? According to the Drinks Aware website the average household spends £8.20 per week on alcoholic products consumed at home and £7.90 per week on drinks consumed elsewhere. I make that £837 p.a. The ONS website states that there are almost 19 million households, so the total amount spent is almost £16 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £1.6 billion – a nice little earner.

    Similarly smoking. The Cancer Research website states that there are nearly 19 million smokers in the UK. Let’s assume each smokes an average of 10 per day. That equates to 69 billion p.a. which in turn equates to 3.4 billion packs of 20. At £7 per pack, that equates to £24 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £2.4 billion – again a nice little earner.

    Finally why not impose extra tax on gambling. £12.6 billion p.a. was earned by the gambling industry in the UK (that’s after payout of winnings!). 10% tax = £1.2 billion.

    That’s potentially a total of £5.2 billion. However the money raised MUST be ring fenced for the NHS.
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.

  25. #55

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.
    This, This & This.

  26. #56

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.
    Of course, otherwise the Government would be killing the proverbial golden goose! That's why I'm suggesting only modest tax increases, at least this would go some way towards treating people with self-inflicted health issues. Personally speaking it wouldn't bother me if taxes were increased to make smoking, drinking and gambling prohibitively expensive as I don't partake in any of these activities anyway. The downside would be that other forms of taxation like income tax would have to rise to compensate!

  27. #57

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Of course, otherwise the Government would be killing the proverbial golden goose! That's why I'm suggesting only modest tax increases, at least this would go some way towards treating people with self-inflicted health issues. Personally speaking it wouldn't bother me if taxes were increased to make smoking, drinking and gambling prohibitively expensive as I don't partake in any of these activities anyway. The downside would be that other forms of taxation like income tax would have to rise to compensate!
    its a race to the bottom issue, and a wonderful political headline making tool ,so why fix it , it would be wonderful if all parties agreed a set of cross party set of principles going forward ,setting correct funding , how to finance it and how to deploy and manage it to ensure there is value for money , will they nah .

  28. #58

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    its a race to the bottom issue, and a wonderful political headline making tool ,so why fix it , it would be wonderful if all parties agreed a set of cross party set of principles going forward ,setting correct funding , how to finance it and how to deploy and manage it to ensure there is value for money , will they nah .
    I think possibly the NHS is the one thing I would actually like to see this approach adopted for because we need a long term plan. Unfortunately the house contains a wide array of views on how to manage it and the middle ground is simply give it money when it cries hard enough (which is what happens currently).

  29. #59

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I think possibly the NHS is the one thing I would actually like to see this approach adopted for because we need a long term plan. Unfortunately the house contains a wide array of views on how to manage it and the middle ground is simply give it money when it cries hard enough (which is what happens currently).
    Yes do agree, I think its a sad reflection that peoples life's and care is not beyond those type of politics.

    Brexit is also issue I think its so crucial to lives, and whichever way you view these high profile topics, those at the lower end of the food chain always suffer from the rough and tumble politics and rush to power .

    I do think there is a moment for a new party if folk had the bollocks to create one and split these two major partiers influences.

  30. #60

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes do agree, I think its a sad reflection that peoples life's and care is not beyond those type of politics.

    Brexit is also issue I think its so crucial to lives, and whichever way you view these high profile topics, those at the lower end of the food chain always suffer from the rough and tumble politics and rush to power .

    I do think there is a moment for a new party if folk had the bollocks to create one and split these two major partiers influences.
    New/third parties always find it difficult to prosper in our political system. Liberals, SDP, Liberal Democrats, you name it.
    The Lib Dems came unstuck after having to form a coalition with one of the two major hitters - and rather than be given credit for moderating the Tories they were blamed for supporting them. The UK doesn't really 'do' coalitions and we seem to swing between left and right as a result.

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