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Thread: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

  1. #51

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Yes they pay extra, exactly what I'm bloody suggesting. I am not saying deliver the extra in a wheelbarrow to each hospital and say 'spend it how you like', obviously you try to spend any increase in funding as efficiently as possible. Where did you think I was proposing to get the money from? Theresa May's own stash?

    You seem to want richer people to pay a bit more for healthcare but you don't want to call it increased funding?

    You need to quit the obsession with health tourism, even in the article you cited the context was that it was a very small issue.
    I have left numerous post outside of health tourism , try and absorb the detail it's all bloddy waste , its seems we are fast becoming a society that can behave however we like and assume someone pays for our poor decisions , and those in real need for care suffer ,again someone started posted this as an attack on saving £185m, however we as a society are wasting billions on folk who live a life without care or control ,why should the health service ,nurses, innocent people seeking emergency care suffer , because folk are too drunk or high , or drive ,fight , with no due care , demand prescription drugs though GP's, they could fund themselves instead of buying a can of beer or smoking themselves to death ,if your serious about discussing funding, it has to be all embracing, not just a narrow focused view because you hate certain political parties.

  2. #52

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I have left numerous post outside of health tourism , try and absorb the detail it's all bloddy waste , its seems we are fast becoming a society that can behave however we like and assume someone pays for our poor decisions , and those in real need for care suffer ,again someone started posted this as an attack on saving £185m, however we as a society are wasting billions on folk who live a life without care or control ,why should the health service ,nurses, innocent people seeking emergency care suffer , because folk are too drunk or high , or drive ,fight , with no due care , demand prescription drugs though GP's, they could fund themselves instead of buying a can of beer or smoking themselves to death ,if your serious about discussing funding, it has to be all embracing, not just a narrow focused view because you hate certain political parties.
    Stop with this strawman ffs, I haven't mentioned any political party.

    So, broadly speaking, how do you propose we combat these issues? The implication of saying 'treating domestic violence victims is a waste' is either that you don't think we should treat them or you have some magical way of stopping domestic violence.

    When they say x issue costs the NHS y does this include money spent on programs to prevent it? Obesity costs the NHS a shit load yet we see this https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-obesi...e-cut-11598344. Presumably you disagree with the short term nature of this decision?

    The only reason any sane person would cancel a service like this is because they want the NHS to go bankrupt and cease to be viable. I imagine you can guess what happens next to 'rescue' us all?

  3. #53

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It is probably less but the point is that everything is an unnecessary risk to someone - 'You mean you didn't cross at the crossing, well sorry sir but you will need to pay for treatment'.
    Probably less! I suspect it is hugely less. I don't think anyone who crosses the road without using a pedestrian crossing (although being a bit reckless depending on the traffic at the time) sets out to deliberately injure themselves whereas someone who drinks/smokes/eats sugar to excess knows the consequences.

    We now have a sugar tax on sugary drinks with talk of a pudding tax now. Good idea.

    Why not increase the tax on fags and alcohol (e.g. the unit of alcohol price idea) and use the revenue for the NHS? According to the Drinks Aware website the average household spends £8.20 per week on alcoholic products consumed at home and £7.90 per week on drinks consumed elsewhere. I make that £837 p.a. The ONS website states that there are almost 19 million households, so the total amount spent is almost £16 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £1.6 billion – a nice little earner.

    Similarly smoking. The Cancer Research website states that there are nearly 19 million smokers in the UK. Let’s assume each smokes an average of 10 per day. That equates to 69 billion p.a. which in turn equates to 3.4 billion packs of 20. At £7 per pack, that equates to £24 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £2.4 billion – again a nice little earner.

    Finally why not impose extra tax on gambling. £12.6 billion p.a. was earned by the gambling industry in the UK (that’s after payout of winnings!). 10% tax = £1.2 billion.

    That’s potentially a total of £5.2 billion. However the money raised MUST be ring fenced for the NHS.

  4. #54

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Probably less! I suspect it is hugely less. I don't think anyone who crosses the road without using a pedestrian crossing (although being a bit reckless depending on the traffic at the time) sets out to deliberately injure themselves whereas someone who drinks/smokes/eats sugar to excess knows the consequences.

    We now have a sugar tax on sugary drinks with talk of a pudding tax now. Good idea.

    Why not increase the tax on fags and alcohol (e.g. the unit of alcohol price idea) and use the revenue for the NHS? According to the Drinks Aware website the average household spends £8.20 per week on alcoholic products consumed at home and £7.90 per week on drinks consumed elsewhere. I make that £837 p.a. The ONS website states that there are almost 19 million households, so the total amount spent is almost £16 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £1.6 billion – a nice little earner.

    Similarly smoking. The Cancer Research website states that there are nearly 19 million smokers in the UK. Let’s assume each smokes an average of 10 per day. That equates to 69 billion p.a. which in turn equates to 3.4 billion packs of 20. At £7 per pack, that equates to £24 billion. Slap a modest 10% tax on that and you get £2.4 billion – again a nice little earner.

    Finally why not impose extra tax on gambling. £12.6 billion p.a. was earned by the gambling industry in the UK (that’s after payout of winnings!). 10% tax = £1.2 billion.

    That’s potentially a total of £5.2 billion. However the money raised MUST be ring fenced for the NHS.
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.

  5. #55
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    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.
    This, This & This.

  6. #56

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It's interesting to get a range of views, I think the sugar tax is a shit idea that will probably provide enough of a positive result long term to allow people to champion the concept in other forms like you suggest. In my opinion it is a last resort once we have run out of proper ideas to solve these intricate problems. One thing we know is the companies doing the damage will not pay, their prices go up, profit levels maintained and the consumer (in most cases heavily weighted towards the poorest in society) will pay for these ideas.

    Why do these taxes never make it prohibitively expensive? The answer can only be because they aren't actually interested in discouraging unhealthy behaviour.
    Of course, otherwise the Government would be killing the proverbial golden goose! That's why I'm suggesting only modest tax increases, at least this would go some way towards treating people with self-inflicted health issues. Personally speaking it wouldn't bother me if taxes were increased to make smoking, drinking and gambling prohibitively expensive as I don't partake in any of these activities anyway. The downside would be that other forms of taxation like income tax would have to rise to compensate!

  7. #57

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Of course, otherwise the Government would be killing the proverbial golden goose! That's why I'm suggesting only modest tax increases, at least this would go some way towards treating people with self-inflicted health issues. Personally speaking it wouldn't bother me if taxes were increased to make smoking, drinking and gambling prohibitively expensive as I don't partake in any of these activities anyway. The downside would be that other forms of taxation like income tax would have to rise to compensate!
    its a race to the bottom issue, and a wonderful political headline making tool ,so why fix it , it would be wonderful if all parties agreed a set of cross party set of principles going forward ,setting correct funding , how to finance it and how to deploy and manage it to ensure there is value for money , will they nah .

  8. #58

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    its a race to the bottom issue, and a wonderful political headline making tool ,so why fix it , it would be wonderful if all parties agreed a set of cross party set of principles going forward ,setting correct funding , how to finance it and how to deploy and manage it to ensure there is value for money , will they nah .
    I think possibly the NHS is the one thing I would actually like to see this approach adopted for because we need a long term plan. Unfortunately the house contains a wide array of views on how to manage it and the middle ground is simply give it money when it cries hard enough (which is what happens currently).

  9. #59

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I think possibly the NHS is the one thing I would actually like to see this approach adopted for because we need a long term plan. Unfortunately the house contains a wide array of views on how to manage it and the middle ground is simply give it money when it cries hard enough (which is what happens currently).
    Yes do agree, I think its a sad reflection that peoples life's and care is not beyond those type of politics.

    Brexit is also issue I think its so crucial to lives, and whichever way you view these high profile topics, those at the lower end of the food chain always suffer from the rough and tumble politics and rush to power .

    I do think there is a moment for a new party if folk had the bollocks to create one and split these two major partiers influences.

  10. #60

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yes do agree, I think its a sad reflection that peoples life's and care is not beyond those type of politics.

    Brexit is also issue I think its so crucial to lives, and whichever way you view these high profile topics, those at the lower end of the food chain always suffer from the rough and tumble politics and rush to power .

    I do think there is a moment for a new party if folk had the bollocks to create one and split these two major partiers influences.
    New/third parties always find it difficult to prosper in our political system. Liberals, SDP, Liberal Democrats, you name it.
    The Lib Dems came unstuck after having to form a coalition with one of the two major hitters - and rather than be given credit for moderating the Tories they were blamed for supporting them. The UK doesn't really 'do' coalitions and we seem to swing between left and right as a result.

  11. #61

    Re: Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    New/third parties always find it difficult to prosper in our political system. Liberals, SDP, Liberal Democrats, you name it.
    The Lib Dems came unstuck after having to form a coalition with one of the two major hitters - and rather than be given credit for moderating the Tories they were blamed for supporting them. The UK doesn't really 'do' coalitions and we seem to swing between left and right as a result.
    Yes your right I think thet deserve more credit than they got, during that coalition .

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