Reply With QuoteYou are correct our defence was awful at times.Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish
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2 minutes gone and a defensive wall that jumps and disintegrates as Rashford strikes.
Herrera left all on his own
Morrison misses tackle on edge of box.
Manga, then Gunnarson give the ball away deep in own half.
Morrison caught wrong side of Lindgard.
Our season won't be decided upon games like this, but for the 1st time this season at home I felt the players, defensively especially, let themselves down..
You are correct our defence was awful at times.
Not helped by the fact that United were told to "enjoy themselves" and "fu**ing shoot"
Murphy provided no cover to Cunningham for the 2nd, fatty Shaw ran passed Hoilett time after time & Bamba directly at fault for 4th & 5th. Inept all around really.
Maybe time to dispense with playing 2 wingers and go 4-4-2 with Reid up with Patterson and more a defensive minded wide man playing instead of Hoillet
Im glad someonelse could see who was directly responsible for the last couple of goals. What the **** Bamba was trying to do for their 5th only he knows, and I don’t know why he was arguing about the penalty. He got done like a kipper with some quick feet and then in his effort to redeem himself fouled Lingard.
perfect remedy.
He wont do that, Wingers are Warnock's everything and it means that we only have two central midfielders instead of three, both in flat positions, we can't even compete with three in there. We simply need to add some quality to the squad and Warnock needs to be a bit more adventurous. The players we have probably aren't quite good enough at this level although i don't believe that they're as bad as they show on times. Warnock may have an ability to get 11 players to play in a way that is affective at championship level, he just can't do it at Premier league level, that's not entirely his fault as he doesn'treally possess the players who can add that little bit more, although i'd say his tactics contribute towards our poor play. We can't pass, make a run, compose ourselves, peel of players etc-The fundamentals of being a half decent football team. The other concern for me is that we are not building a style of play as a club, eventually a new manager will come in and will have to rip up 'The Warnock Way' as it's not sustainable, it may take a new manager two seasons before he can get his style and message across as the players we have now seem to have forgotten how to do the basics, either that or they're being instructed not to.
We have the players to change the style if required. Reid, Murphy, Hoilett, Arter, Camarasa, Zohore can play a different way if asked. Tomlin is another if he was brought back into the fold if we went down and a new manager philosophy.
Patterson, for all his knack of chipping in with the odd goal, gives the ball away all the time and so if we are going to persist with him upfront than we can only play one way and that’s get it forward and hope for a defensive mistake.
Haven’t we played with 3 centre kids most of the season.
Yesterday- Arter, Gunnar, Camerasa?
As Alan Hansen once foolishly said “You won’t win anything with kids”
I think the nail has been hit on the head there. Teams have successfully been able to pass and run their way through our midfield when there's 3 there, so what's the difference between dropping one centre midfield grafter for another striker and giving ourselves more of an attacking option?
I certainly believe that we could change style and try to play through teams although i'm not sure that the players you've mentioned could do it consistently although they're certainly much better players than they're showing at the moment. I've got to honest and say that i don't really rate Arter, i can't see what other supporters can, apart from a willingless to run, his general play is poor and his anticipation is terrible. Murphy makes some poor decisions and his delivery at times is dreadful and he seems intent on trying to take his man on at every opportunity, when it would be easier to start again-maybe he's being told to play that way. Hoilett is a much better player when he picks the ball up in a deep position, he has a bit of vision and his movement is good, he's not great with his back to goal. I think that Reid, Camarasa and Zohore have more to offer, there's a footballing brain or two amongst those three, it's got to be about giving them the platform and freedom to express that, and the support that goes with it. Tomlin........I just don't know.....
We were overawed and well beaten. Some players look tired and the sooner we get new players in the sooner we can go again. I fear for our next 3 games. Our only hope I think is for Warnock to freshen up the team. If that means resting Etheridge, Bamba, Gunner and Patterson so be it. The only positive from yesterday was Zohore who showed in his cameo how a centre forward should run the channels.
Zohore was a positive, although he had nothing to lose. It was 4-1 and the dynamics of the game had changed, there was more space and United were playing with the proverbial Cigar in hand. Zohore needs to do it from the off when the stakes are higher and the intensity is at another level.
Re:Arter. You don’t get promoted in a Bournemouth side, and help them establish themselves in the PL, if you can’t use a football. He’s being made to look like a player who just charges about the pitch like a headless chicken because we just give the ball away and 70% of the time are trying to get it back!!
Yeah, but if we set up with a 442 then we will have two flat central midfielders and a left and right midfielder with two up front in whatever guise Warnock wants them to play. Thing is, Warnock plays with wingers because it's the safest option, it means that the fullbacks can stay put and we can always have two in the centre of midfield if one pushes on to support the striker, it also means that we're attacking from wide positions and delivering crosses which is easier to defend if we do lose the ball in those positions, basically, he wants to keep the central players out of the equation when we're attacking. With a 442 we wont have wingers or attacking fullbacks, completely flat. Two up top and it is an option, but the likelihood is that it'll be planted onto their heads and dealt with easily by defenders in this league.
We looked jaded, but paradoxically finished strongly and our fitness after chasing them for most of the game looked fine..
Hartley, i'll take your point on Arter, either way, it's not good is it.
Agreed. I think the football is absolutely awful. We haven’t got the quality at this level to play like a Citeh but come on, this is the Premier League, just hoofing it anywhere is not acceptable.
It's not. We have to have a plan, not just for now but for the future. The way we play just isn't sustainable and nearly every club that has employed that style of play without mixing it up a little has faltered badly. I'm not saying that we should go down the Fulham route, maybe Watford are a club to emulate.
Like you've already pointed out and I know gringo has been drumming the same drum for a long time that we play differently at every level, if bellers was to take over it would take some time for him to get the team to play the way he wants something I don't think most Cardiff fans will accept
I agree entirely with most of the points you make in this thread especially about where we go as a club when Warnock steps down but I disagree with you regarding Murphy, I feel for the poor lad. Gone are the days when you give the ball to a Jimmy Johsnton or a George Best and say go on lad take them dancing, teams in this day and age create overloads and create one v one situations. Not us, we get the ball to Murphy or Hoilett and say take them all on, or win us a free kick or throw in. It's just not good enough for this level.
There's no excuse for our lack of imagination when you see teams in the championship doing it week in week out. Leeds, Norwich, and many other championship clubs are showing the value of having progressive managers and are a joy to watch.
I honestly believe that if Warnock had Barcelona's squad he'd still ask them to play in right areas. I've heard him say this when asked what he'd do if he managed England.
It won't happen mate. I just don't think our fans are primed for it. Take the Trollope reign for example, it was extremely hard to watch but even in the first couple of games you could hear the groans from the fans to get the ball forward. And that was when the club had just come from an all time low with Slade.
People would (rightly) remember the Warnock years with great fondness so any manager who tried to change our style would be on a hiding to nothing.
This is an excellent thread by the way
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