Oliver Holt defends Bellamy...

[Tuerto]

https://youtu.be/-ZYlXEUo-Lo

I know this was scripted to make people laugh, but it does go on in real life. Would you say this is character building, weeding out the weak, or downright bullying?

I suppose it could be defined in any of the ways you have described. I understand what the Drill sargent is doing, giving the recruits a common enemy, although doesn't Private 'Pile' get bullied and turned on by the other recruits due to the Drill Sargent singling him out, with catastrophic consequences?

My experience certainly wasn't that bad although there was plenty of verbal insult and punishment and the military certainly doesn't operate that way anymore. i can recall an incident when one Apprentice had a rip on the seam of his trousers, the Coach noticed it and murdered him in-front of all of us, calling him a Tramp and the son of a ****ing window cleaner-Don't know where that came from. He made the lad in question sit next to him on the coach journey to the game to make him feel even more uncomfortable and then dropped him from the squad completely when he would've started. I don't think that was character building.

[Lawnmower]

Thanks for an honest answer.
I hit a decent level in three sports - and can't recall any comments from the people who were supposed to be educating me- good or bad - just.....nothing. Didn't bother me and I became used to paddling my own canoe. Was I a better sports person for that? Dunno. The only negative bullying I experienced was from spectators who were supporting opposing teams - and they only served to deepen my determination to win.

Spectators .. I was once being given all sorts of stick as an 18 year old playing up front for a side whilst I was home from college for the weekend as a favour for a mate.

Eventually the ball went out to touch by him and I ran over to take a quick throw.

He said something else , so I shoved the ball into his fat gut and said ‘go on then you fat bastard- let’s see you do better’

Left me alone after that and I went on to score what I think was the winning goal.

Makes me laugh when fans who struggle to get of their asses call players ‘shit ‘ and ‘useless’ .

[William Treseder]

I suppose it could be defined in any of the ways you have described. I understand what the Drill sargent is doing, giving the recruits a common enemy, although doesn't Private 'Pile' get bullied and turned on by the other recruits due to the Drill Sargent singling him out, with catastrophic consequences?

My experience certainly wasn't that bad although there was plenty of verbal insult and punishment and the military certainly doesn't operate that way anymore. i can recall an incident when one Apprentice had a rip on the seam of his trousers, the Coach noticed it and murdered him in-front of all of us, calling him a Tramp and the son of a ****ing window cleaner-Don't know where that came from. He made the lad in question sit next to him on the coach journey to the game to make him feel even more uncomfortable and then dropped him from the squad completely when he would've started. I don't think that was character building.

I’d say what you’ve described (about the ripped seam) is plain bullying and nothing what so ever to do with encouraging the lad or character building.
When I was 16 my first job was a labourer in a saw mill in Cardiff docks. There were about 12 of us working there in total. One guy who would have been in his early 30’s at the time, made my life hell, constantly having a go at me and trying to belittle me in front of the others.
I left after a few months, not because of him, I got a better job. In the following yrs, I was tempted a few times to go back to the mill and have it out with this guy, but I never did. I kinda thought that if I didn’t have the balls to stand up to him at the time, then I should just let it lie. Not sure what I took from the experience, but since then, I’ve never let anybody speak to me like that again and get away with it.

[Tuerto]

I’d say what you’ve described (about the ripped seam) is plain bullying and nothing what so ever to do with encouraging the lad or character building.
When I was 16 my first job was a labourer in a saw mill in Cardiff docks. There were about 12 of us working there in total. One guy who would have been in his early 30’s at the time, made my life hell, constantly having a go at me and trying to belittle me in front of the others.
I left after a few months, not because of him, I got a better job. In the following yrs, I was tempted a few times to go back to the mill and have it out with this guy, but I never did. I kinda thought that if I didn’t have the balls to stand up to him at the time, then I should just let it lie. Not sure what I took from the experience, but since then, I’ve never let anybody speak to me like that again and get away with it.

Yup, it went on a lot with young lads in the workplace, sort of accepted as normal. It's not exclusive to institutions, this type of shit was happening in the building industry, manufacturing etc. Most of us saw it for what it was, or reflected in later years that the perpetrator was a sad bastard who obviously had issues of their own. I put it down to experience, sounds like you did to, although there are people out there who haven't got the character of support network to get themselves through it. I'm certainly not calling for a world where people aren't pulled up or challenged, A little bit of hardship can tell you a lot about yourself and the people around you. As for plain bullying and nastiness just because a person in a position of power can-Nah!

[NYCBlue]

Baffling as to why this is only coming to light Two years down the line !!!

Definitely SOUR GRAPES, now they have found out their son won’t make the grade

Two years ago we were in the Championship. Now we're in the "show". A nothing story can become world news.

[William Treseder]

Yup, it went on a lot with young lads in the workplace, sort of accepted as normal. It's not exclusive to institutions, this type of shit was happening in the building industry, manufacturing etc. Most of us saw it for what it was, or reflected in later years that the perpetrator was a sad bastard who obviously had issues of their own. I put it down to experience, sounds like you did to, although there are people out there who haven't got the character of support network to get themselves through it. I'm certainly not calling for a world where people aren't pulled up or challenged, A little bit of hardship can tell you a lot about yourself and the people around you. As for plain bullying and nastiness just because a person in a position of power can-Nah!

What ever the outcome for Bellamy, I think this has been a good thread, mainly for your input.
There are fine lines in all walks of life. If only we could be born with the experience we accumulate throughout life, the world would be a much better place. We can pass on our wisdom and experience to youngsters, but they all have to go through it themselves.

[Tuerto]

What ever the outcome for Bellamy, I think this has been a good thread, mainly for your input.
There are fine lines in all walks of life. If only we could be born with the experience we accumulate throughout life, the world would be a much better place. We can pass on our wisdom and experience to youngsters, but they all have to go through it themselves.

[thehumblegringo]

This is a much better thread than the ones I've seen in recent days. I'm not saying Bellamy is innocent or guilty but surely any complaint of this nature should be taken seriously?

It's not down to us just cos we are City fans to decide whether the kid is a 'snowflake' or it definitely 'SOUR GRAPES just cos we've read a few lines in the daily mail.

If the original complaint was dealt with using the correct procedures then surely there'll be nothing to answer to but staunchly support Bellamy cos we're City fans is pathetic, as it is to claim Bellamy is guilty if you're a Swansea fan!

[BLUETIT]

This is a much better thread than the ones I've seen in recent days. I'm not saying Bellamy is innocent or guilty but surely any complaint of this nature should be taken seriously?

It's not down to us just cos we are City fans to decide whether the kid is a 'snowflake' or it definitely 'SOUR GRAPES just cos we've read a few lines in the daily mail.

If the original complaint was dealt with using the correct procedures then surely there'll be nothing to answer to but staunchly support Bellamy cos we're City fans is pathetic, as it is to claim Bellamy is guilty if you're a Swansea fan!

As others have said “why wait nearly 2 years to complain” !!!!!

Where’s the “so called footballer” now !!!!

Stinks of sour grapes to me

[thehumblegringo]

As others have said “why wait nearly 2 years to complain” !!!!!

Where’s the “so called footballer” now !!!!

Stinks of sour grapes to me

It makes no difference if he was or is a good footballer. The question is whether the lad was bullied or not.

Where are some of the 'so called footballers' who were victims of sexual abuse?

The point is totally irrelevant!

As I said, I don't have an opinion on whether Bellamy is guilty or not guilty but there should be proper safeguarding channels and maybe it was reported two years ago and the dad how decided to go public cos nothing was done.

You don't know and I don't know so I'll keep my counsel rather than attacking the family just because I'm a Cardiff City fan!

[Tuerto]

It makes no difference if he was or is a good footballer. The question is whether the lad was bullied or not.

Where are some of the 'so called footballers' who were victims of sexual abuse?

The point is totally irrelevant!

As I said, I don't have an opinion on whether Bellamy is guilty or not guilty but there should be proper safeguarding channels and maybe it was reported two years ago and the dad how decided to go public cos nothing was done.

You don't know and I don't know so I'll keep my counsel rather than attacking the family just because I'm a Cardiff City fan!

Well said. We don't know what has happened during that period. An open mind is essential until there's a full investigation.

[thehumblegringo]

http://trainingground.guru/articles/...ademy-bullying


Excellent article on the subject

[thehumblegringo]

http://trainingground.guru/articles/...ey-to-coaching

This article is not really related but I thought it was really interesting.

[surge]

There is a twitter thread which provides following details:

- Bellamy criticises media in support of what Raheem Sterling was saying regarding coverage of black players.
- Daily Mail decides to write report on Rise's autobiography, the golf club incident, a substantial enough period of time after Rise's book comes out
- Daily Mail reports on parents concerns several years after the alleged incident
- Fair process needs to be followed to clear up what happened, however it seems that Mail may be reacting to Bellamy's criticism of the media.

[the other bob wilson]

There is a twitter thread which provides following details:

- Bellamy criticises media in support of what Raheem Sterling was saying regarding coverage of black players.
- Daily Mail decides to write report on Rise's autobiography, the golf club incident, a substantial enough period of time after Rise's book comes out
- Daily Mail reports on parents concerns several years after the alleged incident
- Fair process needs to be followed to clear up what happened, however it seems that Mail may be reacting to Bellamy's criticism of the media.

With this in mind, it has to be said that the paper may have been given the story some time ago and they only decided to act on it after Bellamy's comments, so it's possible that the parents of Alfie Madden did not wait another year and a bit before raising the matter again.

Maybe it's an age thing, but despite some very impressive messages in this thread, I remain unconvinced by the allegations and so don't have a great deal of sympathy for Alfie Madden. However, I would say that, as a former pro, David Madden must have knowledge of the sort of thing that went on at clubs in the 80s and 90s and so this leaves the possibility that he acted as he did because what his son experienced went beyond that.

As Gringo says, it's probably best to leave things now until the enquiry has been held, but I think it's important that any findings are put into the public domain and not have to be dragged out of the club in the manner that seems to have happened at Arsenal when similar allegations were made.