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Thread: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

  1. #61

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    An era when you were in the wrong you would get a clip off teachers , the local bobby etc . Six of the best was the deterrent. Where you had winners and losers not we are winners to appease the bed wetting liberals.
    Sounds a better era when people were getting hit by teachers and policemen fair play.

    For the rest I’d say stop believing everything you read in the paper.

  2. #62

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    An era when you were in the wrong you would get a clip off teachers , the local bobby etc . Six of the best was the deterrent. Where you had winners and losers not we are winners to appease the bed wetting liberals.
    What you fail to mention is that was the same time as when Jimmy Saville was fixing it for kids and Rolf Harris was a lovely tv presenter that wouldn't harm a fly

  3. #63

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    An era when you were in the wrong you would get a clip off teachers , the local bobby etc . Six of the best was the deterrent. Where you had winners and losers not we are winners to appease the bed wetting liberals.
    Schools and childrens leagues still have winners and losers. Whats your point?

  4. #64

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    An era when you were in the wrong you would get a clip off teachers , the local bobby etc . Six of the best was the deterrent. Where you had winners and losers not we are winners to appease the bed wetting liberals.
    Yeah figured you'd say something like that. Take those rose tinted glasses off and step aside

  5. #65

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Yeah figured you'd say something like that. Take those rose tinted glasses off and step aside
    Ok soy boy , do it your way , not very impressed with your reasoning, but I am an old gimmer , bimbling down the inside lane of life and probably so out of touch . Please forgive me but bear in mind that an elder human knows more than you may possibly think . Bless you and I will step aside . May all your dreams come true little one . Peace , love and happiness child 🧒

  6. #66

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Generation snowflake , bless them . Probably not anywhere near the required level and having no discipline in schools , get a rollicking and cannot handle it .
    THIS

  7. #67

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    What you fail to mention is that was the same time as when Jimmy Saville was fixing it for kids and Rolf Harris was a lovely tv presenter that wouldn't harm a fly
    Ok , now we have got shot of all the bad guys in this utopian world you live in . Try and explain the grooming gangs of Telford , Rotherham etc .

  8. #68

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Ok , now we have got shot of all the bad guys in this utopian world you live in . Try and explain the grooming gangs of Telford , Rotherham etc .
    What the **** has that got to do with the original point made?

  9. #69

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Are you pissed Ken , you are dribbling like a bad boy .

  10. #70

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by ken smith View Post
    What the **** has that got to do with the original point made?
    Why didn’t you aim that at Gringo? He was first to mention the kiddie fiddlers.

  11. #71

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I agree with you to the extent that I always say that, even if I had been talented enough to make it as a professional footballer, I lacked the mental toughness and all round discipline to have made a career in the game - like you it seems, I don't think I would have enjoyed the profession either.

    However, does it really have to be the way you describe? While I appreciate that young footballers shouldn't be mollycoddled and given carte blanche to do what they like, I mentioned in an e-mail yesterday that the attitude of some involved in coaching young players appears to be "well, I suffered when I was a kid coming through, so I'm going to make sure this lot do as well".
    There has to be discipline and a realisation that everything that you do, you do it well, and next time you do it, you do it better. Everything is geared up to having high standards, from your appearance to your character, i failed miserably in both departments! Without being rude, people don't really understand what it is like unless they experience it. I was with the club from the age of 12 up until i was 18. From the age of about 14 i realised that things were hotting up, i started thinking competitively, when i went out onto the pitch or training ground i wanted to be the best and i wanted everyone else to be shit, they were my friends but also my rivals. When i signed Apprentice forms it became even more intense, i had two years to be one of the best out of about 13 lads in my age group, i wanted them to fail-imagine having that mind set from the age of 14. I was actually pleased when one of my rivals did poorly, as long as i did well i didn't give a **** about them, i had to be that way.

    My coach was a tough northerner with a pretty average pro career, he had managed two Professional clubs previously, so it was a bit of a come down for him and you could sense it. I've documented some of the things i experienced, it was vicious and not at all character building, i was scared of him and i know that other lads were as well. There was a culture of bullying, when individuals were targeted it took no time before the pack descended upon them, the thinking was, if it was somebody else getting shit, then it wasn't me. A lot of this was done to test you, see how you responded. I didn't enjoy any of it, the pressure was huge, if did poorly in training then you'd get ridiculed, it wasn't jokey. There has to be discipline and young players do need telling from time to time, but to those who think that certain behaviours are acceptable because they build character i ask you this-Would you verbally abuse your kids if they couldn't do their homework? We don't find it beneficial to scream at kids in an Educational environment, why should that be different when they're learning to play football?

  12. #72

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    An era when you were in the wrong you would get a clip off teachers , the local bobby etc . Six of the best was the deterrent. Where you had winners and losers not we are winners to appease the bed wetting liberals.
    Engage your brain for a second and think, if that's true then who has changed it? Is it the young generation? Or is it the generation who were getting clipped and then became adults?

  13. #73

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    What happened to an arm around the shoulder for some and a kick up the arse for others (depending on personality) or is that only reserved for senior players?

  14. #74

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Ok soy boy , do it your way , not very impressed with your reasoning, but I am an old gimmer , bimbling down the inside lane of life and probably so out of touch . Please forgive me but bear in mind that an elder human knows more than you may possibly think . Bless you and I will step aside . May all your dreams come true little one . Peace , love and happiness child 🧒
    You’re chatting complete shite in fairness

  15. #75

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Ok soy boy , do it your way , not very impressed with your reasoning, but I am an old gimmer , bimbling down the inside lane of life and probably so out of touch . Please forgive me but bear in mind that an elder human knows more than you may possibly think . Bless you and I will step aside . May all your dreams come true little one . Peace , love and happiness child 🧒
    There’s been some embarrassing stuff posted on here the last couple of days but this takes the cake

    It’s like someone built a bot to generate silly old c*nt opinions after reading the daily mail and right wing websites.

  16. #76

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Why didn’t you aim that at Gringo? He was first to mention the kiddie fiddlers.
    When I answered I wasn't necessarily targeting sexual abuse. What I was trying to point out was that when people like the "local bobby" are allowed to judge when to give someone a clip without regulation then it often leads To a society where abuse goes on unchecked.

  17. #77

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    When I answered I wasn't necessarily targeting sexual abuse. What I was trying to point out was that when people like the "local bobby" are allowed to judge when to give someone a clip without regulation then it often leads To a society where abuse goes on unchecked.
    I see your point. But there is just as much abuse going on now that is unchecked.

  18. #78

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    When I answered I wasn't necessarily targeting sexual abuse. What I was trying to point out was that when people like the "local bobby" are allowed to judge when to give someone a clip without regulation then it often leads To a society where abuse goes on unchecked.
    That's what I thought. I can't imagine being ok with strangers hitting my kids.

    This talk of snowflake generation is rubbish anyway. You've always had kids who are alright with a rollicking and those who aren't. Tuerto's posts about his experiences have been interesting. The difference now is that one voice can be heard more easily, so we're more likely to hear the stories.

    To be honest, when you look at Barry Bannon and other similar cases that have come out, it's no bad thing if coaches are under greater scrutiny. I'm not saying that's happened here obviously, but if the culture is to be verbally abusive then it makes it easier for those who take things too far to slip through the net.

  19. #79

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    There has to be discipline and a realisation that everything that you do, you do it well, and next time you do it, you do it better. Everything is geared up to having high standards, from your appearance to your character, i failed miserably in both departments! Without being rude, people don't really understand what it is like unless they experience it. I was with the club from the age of 12 up until i was 18. From the age of about 14 i realised that things were hotting up, i started thinking competitively, when i went out onto the pitch or training ground i wanted to be the best and i wanted everyone else to be shit, they were my friends but also my rivals. When i signed Apprentice forms it became even more intense, i had two years to be one of the best out of about 13 lads in my age group, i wanted them to fail-imagine having that mind set from the age of 14. I was actually pleased when one of my rivals did poorly, as long as i did well i didn't give a **** about them, i had to be that way.

    My coach was a tough northerner with a pretty average pro career, he had managed two Professional clubs previously, so it was a bit of a come down for him and you could sense it. I've documented some of the things i experienced, it was vicious and not at all character building, i was scared of him and i know that other lads were as well. There was a culture of bullying, when individuals were targeted it took no time before the pack descended upon them, the thinking was, if it was somebody else getting shit, then it wasn't me. A lot of this was done to test you, see how you responded. I didn't enjoy any of it, the pressure was huge, if did poorly in training then you'd get ridiculed, it wasn't jokey. There has to be discipline and young players do need telling from time to time, but to those who think that certain behaviours are acceptable because they build character i ask you this-Would you verbally abuse your kids if they couldn't do their homework? We don't find it beneficial to scream at kids in an Educational environment, why should that be different when they're learning to play football?
    Thanks for that. As you say, those who haven't experienced what you have cannot really comment on it with much authority, but I must say that what you describe sounds nothing like an environment where teenagers, or possibly younger kids than that these days, would prosper - for every one who developed to their full potential with a football upbringing like that, there has to plenty more that didn't surely?

    Judging by what you say in your first paragraph, the sort of thing you talk about in your second paragraph was going on early in your six year association with the club - can you confirm that this was the case?

  20. #80

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Ok soy boy , do it your way , not very impressed with your reasoning, but I am an old gimmer , bimbling down the inside lane of life and probably so out of touch . Please forgive me but bear in mind that an elder human knows more than you may possibly think . Bless you and I will step aside . May all your dreams come true little one . Peace , love and happiness child ��
    I'm 35 you muppet Just not blinded by a hatred of anything that's different to what it was when I was growing up

  21. #81

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Isn’t the mark of a good manager in all walks of life in the job title? ‘manager’. Although I say all walks of life perhaps football is a bit different. A manager in a factory could be in his 30s managing blokes in their 50s/60s, blokes who’ve been around the block a few times and can more or less handle most things.
    I say football is a bit different because the manager has to manage a unit all around the same age group especially in an academy where they are by & large the same age. If they’d made it that far these lads have been told that they’re the best by their teachers, their mates etc. They’ve been the most talented at school, then the town side etc, any tantrums may have been overlooked because everyone wanted them in the side. Then they’re brought into a world where every one of their contemporaries has been brought up being told the same thing. Must be so competitive that environment and this is where the managers have to manage, know who can take bollockings, know who needs an arm around the shoulder etc. Bullying has to be a big no no, if it gets to that the manager isn’t managing at all, he’s failed the job description. He could potentially be losing his club millions (to be mercenary about it), if a talent jacks it in because he isn’t being managed correctly.
    Really hope this can be sorted out, it’s a grim thing to be hanging around our club & if heads have to roll, so be it.

  22. #82

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    There has to be discipline and a realisation that everything that you do, you do it well, and next time you do it, you do it better. Everything is geared up to having high standards, from your appearance to your character, i failed miserably in both departments! Without being rude, people don't really understand what it is like unless they experience it. I was with the club from the age of 12 up until i was 18. From the age of about 14 i realised that things were hotting up, i started thinking competitively, when i went out onto the pitch or training ground i wanted to be the best and i wanted everyone else to be shit, they were my friends but also my rivals. When i signed Apprentice forms it became even more intense, i had two years to be one of the best out of about 13 lads in my age group, i wanted them to fail-imagine having that mind set from the age of 14. I was actually pleased when one of my rivals did poorly, as long as i did well i didn't give a **** about them, i had to be that way.

    My coach was a tough northerner with a pretty average pro career, he had managed two Professional clubs previously, so it was a bit of a come down for him and you could sense it. I've documented some of the things i experienced, it was vicious and not at all character building, i was scared of him and i know that other lads were as well. There was a culture of bullying, when individuals were targeted it took no time before the pack descended upon them, the thinking was, if it was somebody else getting shit, then it wasn't me. A lot of this was done to test you, see how you responded. I didn't enjoy any of it, the pressure was huge, if did poorly in training then you'd get ridiculed, it wasn't jokey. There has to be discipline and young players do need telling from time to time, but to those who think that certain behaviours are acceptable because they build character i ask you this-Would you verbally abuse your kids if they couldn't do their homework? We don't find it beneficial to scream at kids in an Educational environment, why should that be different when they're learning to play football?
    *applauds*

  23. #83

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Thanks for that. As you say, those who haven't experienced what you have cannot really comment on it with much authority, but I must say that what you describe sounds nothing like an environment where teenagers, or possibly younger kids than that these days, would prosper - for every one who developed to their full potential with a football upbringing like that, there has to plenty more that didn't surely?

    Judging by what you say in your first paragraph, the sort of thing you talk about in your second paragraph was going on early in your six year association with the club - can you confirm that this was the case?
    It wasn't so prevalent as a schoolboy, we would train three times a week, although you were monitored and if standards were dropping then you'd be told to leave, so there was still that competitiveness. I saw kids who were more reserved fold, it could be intense and for me it wasn't enjoyable. You were encouraged to be vocal, 'Talk'' Encourage' etc the lads who had the biggest gobs seemed to thrive as the coaches were old school and saw this kind of behaviour as a form of leadership, confidence etc. The quiet lads fell by the wayside.

    It changed dramatically when i was at the club full time, in an environment that was all about testosterone, a certain amount of aggression and jostling for power, whether that was in training or just doing your jobs. Everything was about being strong, weakness wasn't an option, you would have been slaughtered. I can remember training at Treforest and me and a few other lads were whipping in crosses for the strikers under the instruction of our coach, my first cross was taken by the keeper, Striker told me to '****ing sort it out' second cross i over-hit, My coach told me to ****off and do laps of the pitch for the remainder of the session, i actually remember feeling like it was my fault, he then slaughtered me when i got back in after training.

    The problem is that a lot of these coaches have absolutely no training with kids and their development, they come from a background where winning is everything, they are so competitive, they become institutionalised, involved with football clubs from a very young age, they don't know anything else. To them, we had everything to prove, we had to show them what we had to offer and if it wasn't up to scratch then you'd be ****ed off. I'm not saying that it's like that now, but i'm pretty sure that the culture still exists.

  24. #84

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Of course it bloody well does , I have played devils advocate in a few posts here , I am au fait with a number of professional sportsmen and they are a different breed to the average Joe . They are instilled with a will to win and god help the average chuckle brother who can do a step over or run like the wind

  25. #85

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Siffredi View Post
    Of course it bloody well does , I have played devils advocate in a few posts here , I am au fait with a number of professional sportsmen and they are a different breed to the average Joe . They are instilled with a will to win and god help the average chuckle brother who can do a step over or run like the wind
    Well, if that attitude still persists at Cardiff's Academy, it's not working is it because its reason to exist has to be to produce footballers good enough to make our first team or good enough to net us a substantial transfer fee surely and that hasn't happened in ages.

  26. #86

    Re: "I believe there is a real problem at Cardiff's academy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    It wasn't so prevalent as a schoolboy, we would train three times a week, although you were monitored and if standards were dropping then you'd be told to leave, so there was still that competitiveness. I saw kids who were more reserved fold, it could be intense and for me it wasn't enjoyable. You were encouraged to be vocal, 'Talk'' Encourage' etc the lads who had the biggest gobs seemed to thrive as the coaches were old school and saw this kind of behaviour as a form of leadership, confidence etc. The quiet lads fell by the wayside.

    It changed dramatically when i was at the club full time, in an environment that was all about testosterone, a certain amount of aggression and jostling for power, whether that was in training or just doing your jobs. Everything was about being strong, weakness wasn't an option, you would have been slaughtered. I can remember training at Treforest and me and a few other lads were whipping in crosses for the strikers under the instruction of our coach, my first cross was taken by the keeper, Striker told me to '****ing sort it out' second cross i over-hit, My coach told me to ****off and do laps of the pitch for the remainder of the session, i actually remember feeling like it was my fault, he then slaughtered me when i got back in after training.

    The problem is that a lot of these coaches have absolutely no training with kids and their development, they come from a background where winning is everything, they are so competitive, they become institutionalised, involved with football clubs from a very young age, they don't know anything else. To them, we had everything to prove, we had to show them what we had to offer and if it wasn't up to scratch then you'd be ****ed off. I'm not saying that it's like that now, but i'm pretty sure that the culture still exists.
    I hear constantly that with professional footballers it's always someone else's fault and what you say about the time you were asked to knock those crosses in shows how such an attitude can become ingrained. I get that it is an environment where the adage "only the strong survive" can apply, but, surely, a lot of the aggression and backstabbing mentality becomes counter productive when you consider that we are talking about a team game?

    You don't surprise me with what you say about the kids with the biggest gobs thriving, but, at the far lower levels I played at, I was always someone who thought quality beat quantity every time when it came to that department. I can see that "Testosterone" as you call it, should be a factor in the whole procedure of whether a promisng kid makes the jump to first team footballer, but, from what you say and what I've heard from a few others in the know, it seems to be greatly overvalued to me.

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