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No idea what you mean by the EU member states being the prime movers in this, but then that won't be the first time I have failed to grasp the point you were making. For what it is worth I think a number of member states are getting pretty ambivalent about the UK remaining part of the EU. What is obvious is that the EU will not negotiate a future trade deal that gives the UK a competitive advantage, quite the opposite. Why would they?Originally Posted by life on mars
Naff off may , you tried to destroy the Labour party when the polls were riding high , now sod off
She only lost by 230 votes. Can we have another vote, just to make certain it's what the MP's really wanted?
Can we have 2 years + to debate it ?
You might be in luck
Nice sterling earner tonight .
The BBC website states "Sterling rose 0.1% to $1.289 after declines of more than 1% earlier in the day."
Yes,indeed, nice time for Forex trading ,best to follow these trends than daft political comments , and its far more rewarding .
They aren't the ones giving us a deal. We are the ones leaving, so we need to be the ones putting forward the proposals and it's up to the EU to say what can and can't be done.
What a fecking mess, we have no hope with any of those tossers in charge
As one of the clever beans on the ccmb politics forum likes to tell us, this is all part of Mays plan to stop brexit. The sacrifices she'll make, eh?
Is an indefinite backstop one of these sacrifices? Was two years of negotiation to put us is a worse situation one of these sacrifices?
I've been looking at the manifestos of the official leave campaign and those of leave.eu and voteleavetakecontrol.
All of them propose to have some sort of deal with the EU. Those who reckon that no-deal is really what leave voters voted for are talking bollocks, because no-deal was never proposed. Varying degrees of deal were.
Hence the rise in the pound tonight ,as the prospect of no deal was kicked into the long grass,nothing has changed really, were just going to go around and around until someone falls off or everyone dies of boredom.
Or perhaps this was the long game anyway, get right up to the end of March , have this huge majority of MP's vote against this agreement , and see if Europe blinks, who knows ,well the money traders do I guess ?
So "No Deal" is simultaneously kicked into the long grass and taken to the brink?
I see this morning's version of putting the country above a narrow political agenda involves May's commitment to speak to members of other political parties but not the Leader of the Opposition and set a series of red lines that immediately rule out some of the alternative options proposed to dig us out of the mess she created.
You would have thought last night's vote would have made the architects of this shambles, chastened not emboldened but it appears that a combination of intransigence, incompetence and petty party politicking is still the modus operandi of this government.
not just his government
Something I was unaware of until last week was the decision made by the Labour government in respect of not imposing a transition period in respect of migrant workers from the 10 new EU member states in 2004 (8 of those member states being the former Eastern bloc countries).
Only Britain, Sweden and Ireland took this course of action and the other 12 existing member states chose to impose controls.
The Labour party took advice from the Home Office, which hugely underestimated the numbers coming in to a shoicking degree.
Had the UK government opted to have the transition period concerned it could possibly be that UKIP would not have garnered the same degree of the support they had in the years prior to the referendum and that Cameron would have not taken the action that he inadvisably did and that the Brexit vote tipping point may not have been reached.
The question on the ballot paper was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" though - and it wasn't nuanced by any particular political party's spin on it.
It wasn't a general election so the electorate were not voting for a party manifesto.
What was the question on the ballot paper to enter, did everyone know what they were voting for ? was it nuanced by Ted Heath's spin ? was it a general election or a party manifesto, did the youngsters of the day get a chance to vote on their future ?
The question on the 1975 ballot paper was:
"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market?"
The question was therefore not nuanced or qualified by any political party's spin and was not therefore part of a party manifesto.
As for your question about youngsters, the voting age was the same as it is now.
For the record, the vote was 70% to 30%.
As for people possibly not knowing what they were really voting for, quite possibly they didn't understand the complexity and full ramifications. That was my first visiot to the ballot box so I have some memory of it albeit hazy.
Did we join in 1975 ?
The decision to join the EEC was taken by Edward Heath’s government in 197 but Labour’s manifesto promised a referendum on Britain’s ongoing membership.
All I can remember , no one in Llanrumney liked that posh talking Ted yachting ,MP chap , we had are own posh Jim of the Callaghan who had no Yacht though , however he never looked at ease at Countisbury Avenue Shops , if that helps 😏
As someone who has voted Labour in about 90% of the elections I've been eligible to take part in, can I say that the attitude of Richard Burgon here shows why it's likely that we'll still end up with a Tory Government even if Labour gets the General Election that it's so desperate for - his comments are completely inappropriate for the situation the country finds itself in.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/sta...02626349142016
The way I see it is this:
The referendum was advisory, and the public advised parliament that they wanted to leave the EU.
It's now down to parliament to sort this out. As a representative democracy, with the majority being remainers, the MPs had the right to just say "nah! you don't know what you're talking about, we're going to ignore you" but that would be political suicide, however as it's their duty to do what they believe is best for the country they could have done that.
So they have to fashion a way out of the EU. We have to remember now that the majority of MPs are remainers, a proportion of the Brexiteers will be for some sort of deal, and a proportion of Brexiteers will be for a hard Brexit no deal.
The EU have set their stall out from day 1 - to have a customs union there must be freedom of movement (goods, people, services, and capital), Teresa May has said no to these, so no real deal will be available, it's either no deal, brexit in name only, or no brexit.
Teresa May went for the Brexit in name only option which didn't suit anyone and resulted in last nights historic defeat.
The choices now are No deal and no Brexit.
The majority of MPs see no deal as disastrous for the country and will do everything that they can to avoid it. Which, unless another deal can be agreed and passed, leaves No Brexit.
Parliament can withdraw A50 without going back to the people if they so wished - again though political suicide, so a second vote is the only way (options really can only be no deal or no Brexit). None of this is undemocratic, as said by many.
As parliament is representative, those representatives don't have to follow the wishes of the people.
When the referendum was called the government should have had a plan in place at that point.
When the result was announced the government should have put in place a cross party plan and worked on all of this prior to triggering A50.
But neither of these happened. The main people who instigated this (Cameron, Gove, Johnson etc...) disappeared and left it up to others to pick up the pieces. May has been in a difficult position (anyone would have been) but she had done herself no favours with her pig headed attitude and incompetence.
As an aside a lot (not all) of the reasons that people voted out and blamed the EU for were not actually the EU's fault, often the UK government had it in their power to sort things out but didn't do so.
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