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Thread: Man to Man Marking

  1. #1

    Man to Man Marking

    If anybody is at a loss as to why it isn't working for us take a look at that first goal yesterday.

    I didn't pay that much attention when I watched it first time round other than thinking he cut through us very easily but watch the players that get pulled around and seem pre occupied with their man rather than put in a challenge on Schar.

    Peltier is trying to challenge the man in possession initially in the left back position with Hoilett behind him (not sure why as it doesn't show the build up to this) and then carries on following him into a defensive midfield position. He then watches Schar beat his man and keep running and doesn't seem to react even when he moves into the box.

    Bennett seems more concerned with his man than moving to the ball and backs off to almost the six yard box and then puts in a half arsed block attempt way too late.

    Manga has Rondon and again stays with him while Schar runs into our box.

    Most frustrating of all is Bamba who has no man but while watching Schar backs off from the edge of the D to the edge of the six yard box while not effecting play despite not having a man.

    All in all a comedy of errors but many just doing what they are being told to do and stick with their man.
    When does the danger become obvious here as many didn't react to the threat until he was inside the box and shooting.

    The three people in the box that are goal side back off to the six yard box and lay out the red carpet for Schar.
    I honestly think Bamba does it because the other two are backing off with the men they have been told to man mark.

    If that doesn't show everybody that this tactic isn't working then nothing will.

  2. #2

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    It is noticeable that our midfield two also seem to be man marking also.

    Watch Camaras follow his man long after the ball has gone. Take a look at Ralls looking at his man three times or more.]
    All this while not moving towards the ball. If Camarasa moves to the ball then he certainly stops Schar before he gets anywhere near our box and builds up momentum.

    We've been pulled all over the place by a few teams using this method, Spurs the most notable, but teams in the relegation zone are now doing it with ease.

  3. #3

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Just watched “highlights” again ...the moment Schar gets past Niasse we are in trouble ! We don’t close the ball down , Bennett backs off staying with “his” man !

    Second goal , flicked on from corner and maybe lucky it hits him and goes in but there were 2 others unmarked at the back post.

    Third goal Ralls checks where Perez is three times and still fails to get in front of him to stop the goal !


    Watched Saints highlights next , they look a completely different team to the one we played at CCS. Newcastle seem most vulnerable but we just handed them 3 points so things just seem depressing at the moment

  4. #4

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    I think it is speed of thought and reaction to other players that is the reason we don't do it successfully.

    If done well it is effective (see the top Italian teams , Baresi etc). If it isn't done well and you are coming up against players that are quicker thinking and that bit more skill full to beat a man then it all goes to pot as it did for us yesterday.
    If Camaras isn't asked to track his midfielder as he has then he steps in front of Schar and at least gives a foul away closer to halfway than our goal. Our players are more pre-occupied with following their man than effecting the game in front of them and it is worrying.

    Ralls loses his man on the corner and it is Niasse's man (Schar) that puts the ball in.
    As you have said Ralls looks three times at Perez but a bit of clever thinking and movement sees him leave Ralls on his heels and has a tap in. I believe at least part of that is Ralls being told to stick to his man rather than moving to the ball. If he does that he at least gets a challenge in.

    I thought this would be changed when we were chasing shadows against Spurs but we seem to be persisting with it regardless of the bad results and goals conceded.

  5. #5

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    We did the same last week against Huddersfield and made them look good , the last 2 games we should have been trying to play on the front foot and have a go ! why are we persisting with something that clearly isn’t working?

  6. #6

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by billy.ronson View Post
    Just watched “highlights” again ...the moment Schar gets past Niasse we are in trouble ! We don’t close the ball down , Bennett backs off staying with “his” man !

    Second goal , flicked on from corner and maybe lucky it hits him and goes in but there were 2 others unmarked at the back post.

    Third goal Ralls checks where Perez is three times and still fails to get in front of him to stop the goal !


    Watched Saints highlights next , they look a completely different team to the one we played at CCS. Newcastle seem most vulnerable but we just handed them 3 points so things just seem depressing at the moment

    You mention Saints and look at the way they defend.

    On more than one occasion they stepped out of the defensive line and blocked a shot.

    With our system and the way we set up once a man is beaten and we have invited sides on to us they all have a man each and the attacking man has a cake walk into our box. It isn't the first time it has happened this season. One time that springs to mind was Watford's first goal away.

  7. #7

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    We have been doing this all season.

    I am constantly complaining to anyone who will listen about backing off.

    Loose example:

    When our defenders have the ball.. the opposition hunt us down to try and get it back and close us down. Pressing us high.

    When the opposition defenders have the ball.. we just let them knock it around with ease unchallenged. Or if Paterson decides he wants to try and close down he gives up fairly quickly and drops back again.

    Although I do believe most of our players aren't intelligent enough for the premier league, I also think that this is Warnock's bizarre tactics. It may have worked in the championship when we could let teams play around us and sting them quickly on the break but it simply does not work in the top league. We're being made to look like a parks team.

  8. #8

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Our tactics with the ball seem to be get the ball forward as quickly as possible, on many occasions bypassing the midfield.

    Without the ball it seems Paterson and one winger pressure the defenders (as you've said it is usually a token gesture) with the other winger, midfield and defence backing off and man to man marking.
    Once a man is beaten we are all at sea, in two minds of whether to stay with our man to man marking or to challenge the man in possession.

    I'm all for tracking a man making a dangerous run or potentially dangerous run but sticking with a man going backwards for 10 and 15 yards is mind boggling.

    Unless we change this we will ship goals all season. Man City away and Liverpool home will be like Rorke's Drift with their movement.

  9. #9

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    There were several times yesterday when Peltier was inside Bennett and Manga had shifted across to full back.

    We've thrown away most of the principles that got us promoted last year and now seem in no-man's land between systems.

  10. #10

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    There were several times yesterday when Peltier was inside Bennett and Manga had shifted across to full back.

    We've thrown away most of the principles that got us promoted last year and now seem in no-man's land between systems.
    That's the biggest shame for me.

    I think when we hit form last season that team would have given Newcastle ten times the game that the team did yesterday.

    Last season I know we liked to stay compact and hard to beat at times but can never remember us being pulled around to such an extent.

    Currently watching Huddersfield against Man City and despite being a goal down to a deflected goal they have caused them more problems in 20 minutes than we did against Newcastle over 90 minutes.

  11. #11

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    Our tactics with the ball seem to be get the ball forward as quickly as possible, on many occasions bypassing the midfield.
    What I'm struggling with is what is our next plan when the ball goes forward? Is it Paterson just head it and it might fall to someone who is 20 yards from him? There's no one ever beyond him so what's the point in him knocking it on?

  12. #12

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    What I'm struggling with is what is our next plan when the ball goes forward? Is it Paterson just head it and it might fall to someone who is 20 yards from him? There's no one ever beyond him so what's the point in him knocking it on?
    And that happens time and again.

    Sometimes I feel I am seeing a totally different game to Warnock.
    Maybe he does see games as percentages and if he truly does feel we are inferior all over the park then a 0-0 against anybody is truly a good result but I feel we could go about it a lot better than we do.

    Look at Huddersfield today. Yes, they'll probably get beaten but they have had a go and shown fight and tried to attack where possible (up to now). The fans will definitely leave the ground feeling better than City fans have since the turn of the new year I would imagine.

    Last time we got relegated I had a nagging feeling that we had gone down without giving it a proper go.
    If we get relegated this time playing this way then the same feeling will be there.

  13. #13

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    And that happens time and again.

    Sometimes I feel I am seeing a totally different game to Warnock.
    Maybe he does see games as percentages and if he truly does feel we are inferior all over the park then a 0-0 against anybody is truly a good result but I feel we could go about it a lot better than we do.

    Look at Huddersfield today. Yes, they'll probably get beaten but they have had a go and shown fight and tried to attack where possible (up to now). The fans will definitely leave the ground feeling better than City fans have since the turn of the new year I would imagine.

    Last time we got relegated I had a nagging feeling that we had gone down without giving it a proper go.
    If we get relegated this time playing this way then the same feeling will be there.
    I just don't get it wether it's all bullshit after games but he's starting to get under my skin a bit, I can't just be some happy clapper who should feel privileged just to be here, I could probably accept having a trouncing off the bigger sides as they're simply better but look at palace very unlucky yesterday and gave Liverpool a run for their money, we can't even give a piss poor Newcastle side a run yet our gaffer comes out with he thought we played well ffs

  14. #14

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    The noises Warnock has made since we have been promoted have been of a team that are happy to take part etc.
    He said at the promotion celebration that we should remember this if we lose 4 on the bounce. It was even there then if said in jest.

    More than once this season he has been in awe of the strength of the other team and praised them. I understand it but every time.
    This coupled with how we set up and our general philosophy sticks in the throat a bit.

    Huddersfield have just limited Man City to one shot on goal while having one themselves and having quite a few attacking threats themselves.
    It is possible. What our team seem to fail to realise also is if you have the ball and attack the other team does not.
    Games against the top 6 sides have been like attack v defence in the main for us. It is demoralising.

  15. #15

    Re: Man to Man Marking

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    If anybody is at a loss as to why it isn't working for us take a look at that first goal yesterday.

    I didn't pay that much attention when I watched it first time round other than thinking he cut through us very easily but watch the players that get pulled around and seem pre occupied with their man rather than put in a challenge on Schar.
    I saw this happening in real time and posted it in the match thread. It's so obvious for opposition that pulling us around and changing positions is opening up massive holes for deep runners. I'm fully behind Warnock because his man management is second to none, but he needs some better coaches in my opinion. I've heard from lots of other ex pro's that Neil isn't that active during training and we're being out-coached at the moment. Along with having a squad of players that lack premier league class we are having to work our nuts off to get anywhere.

    We have to keep our shape at the back and if it means changing marker, then let's do it. I would love to see Pelt's heat map for yesterday because he was literally everywhere but not in a good way.

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