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Thread: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

  1. #51

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by fred keenor View Post
    Yes we have arranged a flight for you Elimiano, you have to wear a full immersion suit whilst flying.
    Does anyone who is sane think this level of aircraft was suitable, if this conversation had taken place.

    It’s incredible that it was allowed to happen, and their now appears to be a race from those involved to be absolved from responsibility.

  2. #52
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    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    The initial investigation will be conducted by the Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB). There will be no police involvement until an allegation of criminality is made. Booking a flight on a plane is not criminal, However, if someone booked a flight knowing a plane wasn't suitable and that the pilot wasn't qualified, that may indicate negligence at a criminal level, which would then trigger a police investigation. As the plane seems to have come down near the Channel Islands, I would assume any investigation would be conducted by The Sates Of Guernsey Police.
    I thoug
    ht that was basically what I said.

  3. #53

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    My first comment on this tragedy that has actually had me feeling guilty and I am just a stupid fan that lives in Jersey.

    I had a PPL. Private pilots licence.

    Pilots regularly fly without pay to keep their hours up. If you don’t fly enough hours you lose your licence. Their fuel money expense is covered by their passengers it’s a win win thing that all private pilots do and understand.

    Did the pilot have IMC rating. Instrument meteorological conditions licence.

    One licence is VFR only. In laymans terms you fly in clear skies only.

    You can even fly at night with a VFR and night rating.

    Flying VFR is relatively easy.
    Flying IMC is difficult and requires permanent concentration. .
    Really interesting post. Can I ask whether you would have made the journey to Cardiff that night in that plane being aware of the tricky weather conditions?

  4. #54

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Really interesting post. Can I ask whether you would have made the journey to Cardiff that night in that plane being aware of the tricky weather conditions?
    Not having seen the METAR (Aviatiors local weather report) at Nantes that evening it is hard to answer. Icing can occur in carburettors of single engine planes in odd circumstances and is always a risk.
    Icing on wings is usually dealable with because you concentrate always on keeping the plane in the air. Glide down if you have to.
    No mayday indicates they crashed to me.
    That said they were probably close to the boundary of or out of Jersey controlled airspace. Jersey airspace is category A. The most regulated in the UK.
    Most of the English Channel is in uncontrolled airspace which will surprise many people.

    If the pilot was experienced. Very and he had an IMC rating then yes he might have been ok to fly. He would and should have had details of alternative airports and in particular Guernsey and Jersey airport experience.

  5. #55

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    A better question is .....
    Would I want to be a passenger in an old single engine plane being flown by a 60 year old I didn’t know at night over water in Winter?
    Hindsight is easy but I think I would want to travel in daylight.

  6. #56

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Really interesting post. Can I ask whether you would have made the journey to Cardiff that night in that plane being aware of the tricky weather conditions?
    I wouldn’t and I have a current ATPL and 13000 flying hours and a current instrument rating.

    As a bare minimum I would have two engines and two crew on board.

  7. #57

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    I wouldn’t and I have a current ATPL and 13000 flying hours and a current instrument rating.

    As a bare minimum I would have two engines and two crew on board.
    This is exactly what my Client / Friend said, he is a Snr BA pilot ( i know its slightly different flying commercial stuff, but I guess he is fairly experienced ) He was amazed by it all

  8. #58

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    It seems that every few hours some more information (amongst misinformation and speculation) comes out about the events leading up to the tragedy.

    This latest BBC report says that Mark McKee was acting for Nantes in the transfer negotiations - I previously understood he was a broker or middleman for his father's agency bringing Cardiff and Nantes together.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47013474

    If that is the case, and Mark McKee made the initial arrangements for the flights (via David Henderson whose role and movements are another story) to and from Nantes, would he still be regarded as an agent for Nantes when making flight arrangements on the back of the transfer deal? I assume his relationship with Nantes ended when the contract was signed (unless he is on their payroll) but maybe not. It may explain why Cardiff has reportedly frozen payments to Nantes whilst they complete the internal club investigation.
    I wonder if Mark Mckay is the man NW refers to as his man in France that sometimes gives him the heads up on French League talent. In the few Q&As I have been to with NW since he came to the club, he mentions a guy who recommended Didier Drogba to him a few years' ago but NW did not go for it. The same guy recommended Luic Damour.
    SJB

  9. #59

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloop_Jon_Bee View Post
    I wonder if Mark Mckay is the man NW refers to as his man in France that sometimes gives him the heads up on French League talent. In the few Q&As I have been to with NW since he came to the club, he mentions a guy who recommended Didier Drogba to him a few years' ago but NW did not go for it. The same guy recommended Luic Damour.
    SJB
    There’s some not very nice rumours doing the rounds about Warnock and Mckays relationship over the years. It’s not painting Warnock in a very good light.

  10. #60

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloop_Jon_Bee View Post
    I wonder if Mark Mckay is the man NW refers to as his man in France that sometimes gives him the heads up on French League talent. In the few Q&As I have been to with NW since he came to the club, he mentions a guy who recommended Didier Drogba to him a few years' ago but NW did not go for it. The same guy recommended Luic Damour.
    SJB
    I may be wrong here Spedger, but my understanding was that Neil Warnock's "man in France" was an ex player who was at Sheffield United with him - something like De'Jaffo?

  11. #61

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    I wouldn’t and I have a current ATPL and 13000 flying hours and a current instrument rating.

    As a bare minimum I would have two engines and two crew on board.
    What you and other pilots on this forum have said is interesting to say the least. It is shining a light on this type of aircraft being used for purposes which get around rules and regulations that apply to fully commercial flights.
    I suspect this tragedy will not just involve serious litigation between the parties involved but also a change in the law.

  12. #62

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn View Post
    What you and other pilots on this forum have said is interesting to say the least. It is shining a light on this type of aircraft being used for purposes which get around rules and regulations that apply to fully commercial flights.
    I suspect this tragedy will not just involve serious litigation between the parties involved but also a change in the law.
    It sounds like it could have been avoided. A hell of a lot of what ifs.

  13. #63

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    The McKays seem to have dealt with Dave Henderson and he (?) sourced the aeroplane and the pilot for the trip(s).
    There is a front page piece in todays Telegraph Sport saying that Willie McKay and his family have been through hell over on line abuse, and that people are talking about his sons. He said 'we just tried to help the young guy'( Sala) and had no involvement in selecting a plane and pilot.

    I sort of understand his distress and I hope he understands that a lot of people are devastated and aggrieved at the probable death of a young footballer and his pilot.

    I can't understand why they would want to interfere in the first place as, in conversation with Jack McKay, Sala says he was in the middle of looking at his flight options. It wasn't as if he was stuck. Also why offer to fly him for free? Someone has to pay somewhere along the line.

    As far as the pilot choice was concerned in the Sala/ Mc Kay conversation the flight times for Monday are changed " Because the pilot has to get home in the North after Cardiff.' So at that point it is possible that someone in the family knew who that was and press reports point to David Henderson.

    All a sad mystery for now

  14. #64

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    There is a front page piece in todays Telegraph Sport saying that Willie McKay and his family have been through hell over on line abuse, and that people are talking about his sons. He said 'we just tried to help the young guy'( Sala) and had no involvement in selecting a plane and pilot.

    I sort of understand his distress and I hope he understands that a lot of people are devastated and aggrieved at the probable death of a young footballer and his pilot.

    I can't understand why they would want to interfere in the first place as, in conversation with Jack McKay, Sala says he was in the middle of looking at his flight options. It wasn't as if he was stuck. Also why offer to fly him for free? Someone has to pay somewhere along the line.

    As far as the pilot choice was concerned in the Sala/ Mc Kay conversation the flight times for Monday are changed " Because the pilot has to get home in the North after Cardiff.' So at that point it is possible that someone in the family knew who that was and press reports point to David Henderson.

    All a sad mystery for now
    A serious case of BSE (blame someone else) going on with all involved.

  15. #65

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    There is a front page piece in todays Telegraph Sport saying that Willie McKay and his family have been through hell over on line abuse, and that people are talking about his sons. He said 'we just tried to help the young guy'( Sala) and had no involvement in selecting a plane and pilot.

    I sort of understand his distress and I hope he understands that a lot of people are devastated and aggrieved at the probable death of a young footballer and his pilot.

    I can't understand why they would want to interfere in the first place as, in conversation with Jack McKay, Sala says he was in the middle of looking at his flight options. It wasn't as if he was stuck. Also why offer to fly him for free? Someone has to pay somewhere along the line.

    As far as the pilot choice was concerned in the Sala/ Mc Kay conversation the flight times for Monday are changed " Because the pilot has to get home in the North after Cardiff.' So at that point it is possible that someone in the family knew who that was and press reports point to David Henderson.

    All a sad mystery for now
    He’s got his own agent so why did they need to get involved?

  16. #66

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Bottom line agents have cut costs on a prized asset, and gambled with Sala s life, it’s a very very sad incident

  17. #67

    Re: Email exchanges about flight between Sala and Jack McKay

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    There is a front page piece in todays Telegraph Sport saying that Willie McKay and his family have been through hell over on line abuse, and that people are talking about his sons. He said 'we just tried to help the young guy'( Sala) and had no involvement in selecting a plane and pilot.

    I sort of understand his distress and I hope he understands that a lot of people are devastated and aggrieved at the probable death of a young footballer and his pilot.

    I can't understand why they would want to interfere in the first place as, in conversation with Jack McKay, Sala says he was in the middle of looking at his flight options. It wasn't as if he was stuck. Also why offer to fly him for free? Someone has to pay somewhere along the line.

    As far as the pilot choice was concerned in the Sala/ Mc Kay conversation the flight times for Monday are changed " Because the pilot has to get home in the North after Cardiff.' So at that point it is possible that someone in the family knew who that was and press reports point to David Henderson.

    All a sad mystery for now
    In the same article McKay says he 'made the booking through David Henderson', which contradicts his assertion they had 'no involvement...'. If they left the organising of the plane and pilot to Henderson, who then sourced this plane and inexperienced pilot, both McKay and Henderson have a 'duty of care', and a legal liability regarding the safety of Sala. To put it simply, they are both in it up to their necks, whatever they may both say..

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