Reply With QuoteThe Bundesliga is now the place to be if you want a proper football education, where you can learn by doing. You can't learn about playing at the highest level by not playing at the highest level.
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Going by this logic players like Best, Giggs and Ronaldo wouldn't have got their starts at such a young age either, they had to learn on the job and were all the better for it.Originally Posted by Heisenberg
The Bundesliga is now the place to be if you want a proper football education, where you can learn by doing. You can't learn about playing at the highest level by not playing at the highest level.
The logic that players have to be good enough to get into the first teams at their respective clubs? I can't see how you came to your bizarre conclusion.
What a ridiculous statement and an overreaction to Jadon Sancho's success at Dortmund. Hudson-Odoi could go to Bayern and warm the bench for 4 years for all anyone knows. The same goes for Matondo or anyone else that goes to Germany.
You'd think that there weren't teenagers getting games in the Premier League, judging by the way you talk.
Talking about the top clubs where they farm players.
Brooks starts most games and his improvement has been very noticeable, yet watching Ampadu yesterday, while he didn't play badly he looks like a player who is hardly playing. He's had more game time with Wales than with Chelsea, so I don't see how being at a Big Six Premier League club is benefitting him.
I think he's probably arguing that if that had stayed at/gone to smaller clubs then they would have probably had more first team game time at this point in their careers, at the expense of quality of coaching. Which is feasible, but I don't think there is any evidence that the alternative of players staying with smaller clubs actually produces more top level players. Us and England both have more promising young players than at any point I can remember.
What makes you say the Bundesliga is the place to go then if it's not because of Sancho? There's no other evidence for it to be a place to nurture young British talent seeing as Reiss Nelson has done ok, but barely started a game at Hoffenheim... and he has already played for Arsenal in the Premier League previously.
Why not go to another PL team (or The Championship a la Abraham, Wilson and Mount) to get games if they are indeed good enough... why would they have to go to Germany where there is only one example of a young British player getting game time and doing well?
Rashford has been in the United team since he was 18.
Sterling broke into the Liverpool team at 17 and has been playing consistently at the top of the Premier League since then.
Luke Shaw has been in the first team at Man United since he was 18 (injuries and Mourinho aside)
Alexander Arnold been first choice RB at Liverpool since he was 17.
Skipp has played in 5 PL games for Spurs this season.
Joe Gomez has been a first team player for Liverpool since he was 18 (injuries aside)
Foden has played in 8 PL games for Man City this season.
Maitland Niles has been in the first team at Arsenal for a couple of years and is now playing regularly
Odoi has got a few PL games for Chelsea this season (amongst cup games) and would no doubt get more before it's over. He would then be better placed to push for a regular starting place next season with the experience he's had this year.
The best players will get their chances and will take them. The rest will possibly end up abroad or at lesser clubs anyway, if they aren't good enough for the 'Big Six'.
... but Jadon Sancho is doing well at Dortmund
I didn't get that at all from him
By all accounts the Sarri training sessions at Chelsea are nothing to write home about, the players hate them.
The point I'm arguing is for more game time so that the young players can develop, but it will never happen because all the big clubs need to finish in the top 4.
The players hating them or not isn't a measure of whether they are effective.
That aside the most important coaching a player recieves is when they are a lot younger than when the likes of Sarri will encounter them. The likes of Chelsea and man city are investing a lot in this.
For every Sancho, there is an Oli Burke!
... but Jadon Sancho is doing well at Dortmund
That's a tiny percentage compared to the number of players the big clubs are hoarding, who will never get anywhere near the first team, because their clubs are more interested in signing established internationals from all around the world.
Send 'em all to Germany then, is it?
Only a tiny percentage will be good enough to play for the top clubs anyway - the ones who aren't; leave.
Exactly.
Or maybe don't go there in the first place?
Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but that's not what you were arguing - you were talking about the Bundesliga being the "place to be for a proper football education" without any rationale behind it. Young players are flourishing in other PL teams and on loan in the Championship. The top 6 isn't the be-all/end-all of the Premier League for youngsters. Gibbs White and Declan Rice are two stand out teenagers from this year playing outside the top 6 in the Premier League.
You were clearly suggesting that players need to move abroad to play, when the evidence is there that the best players end up thriving wherever they are or whatever route they've taken.
If he goes for the reported £10m, where does that put him in a list of transfers involving Welsh players?
I imagine he'll be in the top 10, poss top 5 which is crazy since he's not played any 1st team football.
If we are talking like for like, Hudson-Odoi could be playing Champions League football next month, whereas Sarri was only playing him after Bayern came sniffing. An England cap could also be on the horizon.
He has potential from what I have seen, so definately worth a punt. Not so sure about the fee, but the raw attributes are in place.
He could be out of the Champions League next month with Bayern but end up winning the Europa League with Chelsea... what's your point?
In fact, I give up.
http://www.viewfromtheninian.com/201...that-got-away/
According to this we could get 5% of any sale
You have failed to make a case why any talented young player should remain at top Premier League club when they are not getting any (or very little) game time.
Personally I think it's disgusting that a club like City can hoover up young players like Sancho and Matondo for a pittance and sell them on for millions, as if they don't have enough financial advantages already.
Everybody knows how this model works, Chelsea have been doing it for years. You sign up as many promising young players as you can, preferably from EU countries as you can get them when they're 16. Most of them won't get near the first team but it didn't matter cos afterafter you've loaned them out a few times you can sell them on for a tidy sum to offset FFP and they can sit on your bench in the champions league and fulfill your 'homegrown' quota. Everyone's a winner except the club that actually developed the player.
I wonder why that is... perhaps it's because I don't believe that they should remain there if they aren't playing
I've just said on several occasions that there are routes to take to get to the point of first team football - for the big teams or otherwise. Whether that be utilising loans or joining smaller teams in the PL or the Championship.
You were the one saying that "The Bundesliga is now the place to be if you want a proper football education" and haven't been able to explain why that is, despite having several posts where you could at least attempt an explanation.
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