leaked email

[the other bob wilson]

With you, his attitude does come across as if he's untouchable and it is calculated, although i'm not surprised by that. As for the issue with the pilot, we don't know if Mckay was involved with the selection or whether he knew that there was likely to be a change, we can't really blame him for that one, can we? There seems to be a lot of stuff that doesn't seem to add up, not least Mckay's relationship with the club, but from where i'm sitting it seems like there are people who are trying to pin him for things he may not have had any control over. Let's wait and see what happens over the coming months, things may well become clearer, although i have my doubts!

I've got to be careful how I word this, so I'll say that if you are earning a significant sum for your part in arranging a £15 million pound transfer, then wouldn't you feel obliged to lay on the best possible treatment for the player involved? The offer to enable Sala to fly to France and back free of charge suggests that, but what happened after that doesn't for me.

So many have made out that they are some sort of aviation expert over the past ten days or so, but that's something I've consciously avoided doing because I knew bugger all about planes and flying them a fortnight ago and I still do know. However, you only have to read that thread from the aviation site that was posted on here to see that at least some people who do know about these subjects have doubts about the use of that type of plane for the sort of flight involved in the prevailing weather conditions.

Similarly, there have been question marks regarding the suitability of the pilot for the type of journey involved raised. It would appear that it is not 100 per cent certain that the McKays were responsible for the choice of plane and it looks unlikely that they picked David Ibottson to be the pilot, but it seems that they did arrange for Mr Henderson to be. Now it seems to me that, given the doubts expressed about pilot and plane by people qualified to know about these things, Mr Henderson acted recklessly in arranging for an alternative pilot, but, as the people in overall charge, weren't the McKays wrong to consider someone who would act like that in the first place?

That's what I meant when I talked about the arrangement of the flight being amateurish. When you have somebody making it as obvious how much money matters to him and his company as Willie McKay does in those e mails, it seems logical to think that they would take a cutting corners approach to the cost of arranging things like private flights for the clients responsible for making them these large sums of money.

[Wales-Bales]

I've got to be careful how I word this, so I'll say that if you are earning a significant sum for your part in arranging a £15 million pound transfer, then wouldn't you feel obliged to lay on the best possible treatment for the player involved? The offer to enable Sala to fly to France and back free of charge suggests that, but what happened after that doesn't for me.

So many have made out that they are some sort of aviation expert over the past ten days or so, but that's something I've consciously avoided doing because I knew bugger all about planes and flying them a fortnight ago and I still do know. However, you only have to read that thread from the aviation site that was posted on here to see that at least some people who do know about these subjects have doubts about the use of that type of plane for the sort of flight involved in the prevailing weather conditions.

Similarly, there have been question marks regarding the suitability of the pilot for the type of journey involved raised. It would appear that it is not 100 per cent certain that the McKays were responsible for the choice of plane and it looks unlikely that they picked David Ibottson to be the pilot, but it seems that they did arrange for Mr Henderson to be. Now it seems to me that, given the doubts expressed about pilot and plane by people qualified to know about these things, Mr Henderson acted recklessly in arranging for an alternative pilot, but, as the people in overall charge, weren't the McKays wrong to consider someone who would act like that in the first place?

That's what I meant when I talked about the arrangement of the flight being amateurish. When you have somebody making it as obvious how much money matters to him and his company as Willie McKay does in those e mails, it seems logical to think that they would take a cutting corners approach to the cost of arranging things like private flights for the clients responsible for making them these large sums of money.

I'll also add that the true owners of the aircraft have not been disclosed publicly.

[Harry Monk]

However, you only have to read that thread from the aviation site that was posted on here to see that at least some people who do know about these subjects have doubts about the use of that type of plane for the sort of flight involved in the prevailing weather conditions.

Now it seems to me that, given the doubts expressed about pilot and plane by people qualified to know about these things, Mr Henderson acted recklessly in arranging for an alternative pilot,

.

Or maybe Mr Henderson turned up at the airport, and decided that due to the type of plane, and the weather conditions, he didn't deem it safe to conduct the journey and pulled out. Leaving Mr Ibbitosn to say "I'll do it".

The choice to fly is always the pilot's.

[Wales-Bales]

Or maybe Mr Henderson turned up at the airport, and decided that due to the type of plane, and the weather conditions, he didn't deem it safe to conduct the journey and pulled out. Leaving Mr Ibbitosn to say "I'll do it".

The choice to fly is always the pilot's.

Don't forget Mr Henderson is well aquainted with that aircraft having sourced it in Spain according to a BBC video. So did he aquire it for himself or a 3rd party? Who owned the plane is a significant piece of the puzzle.

[Harry Monk]

Don't forget Mr Henderson is well aquainted with that aircraft having sourced it in Spain according to a BBC video. So did he aquire it for himself or a 3rd party? Who owned the plane is a significant piece of the puzzle.

I'm not sure it is, unless the maintanance log shows it hasn't been maintained correctly.

[Wales-Bales]

I'm not sure it is, unless the maintanance log shows it hasn't been maintained correctly.

So why is everybody distancing themselves from owning the plane? We know somebody owns it via a trust, it was sourced in Spain by Henderson, and is has been used for McKay's football agent business. It was also a N reg, which cannot be used for commercial purposes.

[Harry Monk]

So why is everybody distancing themselves from owning the plane? We know somebody owns it via a trust, it was sourced in Spain by Henderson, and is has been used for McKay's football agent business. It was also a N reg, which cannot be used for commercial purposes.

Because they're being accused of owning it when they don't? I'm sure that once the maintanence logs are checked, the AAIB will decide whether or not the the owners are culpable.

[Vindec]

Because they're being accused of owning it when they don't? I'm sure that once the maintanence logs are checked, the AAIB will decide whether or not the the owners are culpable.

It is not the purpose of AAIB investigations to apportion blame or liability. ( The Civil Aviation (Investigation of Air Accidents and Incidents) Regulations 19961.)

[Wales-Bales]

Because they're being accused of owning it when they don't? I'm sure that once the maintanence logs are checked, the AAIB will decide whether or not the the owners are culpable.

The trust ownership is a veil that prevents us from knowing who the true owners of the aircraft are. I'm not sure what the legal ramifications are, e.g. would Tan consider legal action against the trust, or would the real owners be unmasked?

[the other bob wilson]

Or maybe Mr Henderson turned up at the airport, and decided that due to the type of plane, and the weather conditions, he didn't deem it safe to conduct the journey and pulled out. Leaving Mr Ibbitosn to say "I'll do it".

The choice to fly is always the pilot's.

If what you say is entirely correct, then Mr Henderson was happy to hand over the journey to someone who was less qualified to manage it than him. That would be a little risky even if it was a solo flight delivering some sort of goods, but when the "cargo" was a £15 million footballer, the decision he may have taken strikes me as a reckless one.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

If what you say is entirely correct, then Mr Henderson was happy to hand over the journey to someone who was less qualified to manage it than him. That would be a little risky even if it was a solo flight delivering some sort of goods, but when the "cargo" was a £15 million footballer, the decision he may have taken strikes me as a reckless one.

It's a valid point and one I made previously - McKay hired someone who hired someone not suitable. That puts McKay firmly in the frame.

[Wales-Bales]

It's a valid point and one I made previously - McKay hired someone who hired someone not suitable. That puts McKay firmly in the frame.

According to news reports, all costs were charged to Henderson's credit card.

[Harry Monk]

If what you say is entirely correct, then Mr Henderson was happy to hand over the journey to someone who was less qualified to manage it than him. That would be a little risky even if it was a solo flight delivering some sort of goods, but when the "cargo" was a £15 million footballer, the decision he may have taken strikes me as a reckless one.

I doubt he could have stopped him. If I decide not to drive into work because I don't think it's safe, it isn't my responsibility if another driver decides to do it.

[the other bob wilson]

I doubt he could have stopped him. If I decide not to drive into work because I don't think it's safe, it isn't my responsibility if another driver decides to do it.

But, if the reports are correct, it looks like Ibbotson would not have been able to take the job on if Henderson hadn't paid for his hotel stay.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

But, if the reports are correct, it looks like Ibbotson would not have been able to take the job on if Henderson hadn't paid for his hotel stay.

I find it hard to believe that Ibbotson would have accepted the job just on the basis of 'expenses', when he was allegedly in so much debt, especially considering this was a multi million pound 'transaction'. More likely cash was paid, or was to be paid, probably kept under-the-counter so as to avoid the flight being deemed as a professional trip which would have rendered it outside regulatory rules...

[IanD]

I find it hard to believe that Ibbotson would have accepted the job just on the basis of 'expenses', when he was allegedly in so much debt, especially considering this was a multi million pound 'transaction'. More likely cash was paid, or was to be paid, probably kept under-the-counter so as to avoid the flight being deemed as a professional trip which would have rendered it outside regulatory rules...

And not necessarily cash. A few weeks later an airline ticket in the post, a nice weekend break paid for, a few bottles of single malt by courier. If the pilot has been accurately reported as being in debt, CCJs x 4, it might be the case that cash plus expenses was given the nod. Risky.... easier to trace maybe. Depends where the originator of the deal has their bank account(s).

[Vindec]

But, if the reports are correct, it looks like Ibbotson would not have been able to take the job on if Henderson hadn't paid for his hotel stay.

But that is expenses which Ibbotson is perfectly entitled to receive as a non commercial pilot. He can work for expenses but not profit. The other explanation is that a holder of a PPL needs to do a certain number of hours and often pilots do work for expenses just to bump their hours up to the required level.

[Wales-Bales]

But that is expenses which Ibbotson is perfectly entitled to receive as a non commercial pilot. He can work for expenses but not profit. The other explanation is that a holder of a PPL needs to do a certain number of hours and often pilots do work for expenses just to bump their hours up to the required level.

I'm not sure if a weekend in a hotel would be considered a legitimate flying expense, as in it's not directly related to the flight.