Theory

[dandywarhol]

If this is right someone has got a lot of explaining to do
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8764461.html

[NYCBlue]

Jesus. What a cluster****. I'm guessing people get away with this all the time.

[rs3100]

If this is right someone has got a lot of explaining to do
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8764461.html

Spatial disorientation is awful, I’ve only ever experienced it while diving and having no visual reference. It can feel like you’re going up when you’re going down and vice versa, it’s even given me vertigo.

You just have to trust your gauges and know how to get yourself out of it.

[Wales-Bales]

They didn't mention the request to descend from 5,000ft to 2,300ft prior to crash. Would that reason have been reported to Jersey Air Traffic Control? The spatial awareness theory has being doing the rounds on PPRUNE since day one, as has the instrument rating question.

[Croesy Blue]

They didn't mention the request to descend from 5,000ft to 2,300ft prior to crash. Would that reason have been reported to Jersey Air Traffic Control? The spatial awareness theory has being doing the rounds on PPRUNE since day one, as has the instrument rating question.

Thank god the AAIB have logged on to ccmb to explain it to us laymen.

[Wales-Bales]

Thank god the AAIB have logged on to ccmb to explain it to us laymen.

I'm just making the point that there is nothing new in that article, and there is still one big question that so far hasn't been answered, and it could possibly reveal if there were any operational problems affecting the plane and/or pilot.

So have you come here to ruin another thread by not sticking to the topic and acting like a jerk again?

[xsnaggle]

I'm just making the point that there is nothing new in that article, and there is still one big question that so far hasn't been answered, and it could possibly reveal if there were any operational problems affecting the plane and/or pilot.

So have you come here to ruin another thread by not sticking to the topic and acting like a jerk again?

I'm sure you'll find the answer to that big question. But why is questioning your omnipotence "ruining another thread"? Because someone dares to question your greater knowledge and judgement?

just asking. I'm curious?

[Wales-Bales]

I'm sure you'll find the answer to that big question. But why is questioning your omnipotence "ruining another thread"? Because someone dares to question your greater knowledge and judgement?

just asking. I'm curious?

What does it add to the discussion? If he doesn't agree with the points being made then he should refute them and come up with something better. As a general rule if people can't stick to the topic then it's best to STFU. I don't understand the constant need to derail threads on such a regular basis.

[xsnaggle]

What does it add to the discussion? If he doesn't agree with the points being made then he should refute them and come up with something better. As a general rule if people can't stick to the topic then it's best to STFU. I don't understand the constant need to derail threads on such a regular basis.

You clearly either didn't bother to read my last post or chose to ignore it, perhaps to continue the bickering, which of course will derail the thread, for which you can then blame someone else.
Not everyone's comments on every thread add to it, they are just comments, peoples' thoughts. This is just a message board, not a debating chamber.

As I already said, forget it, it isn't worth the hassle.

[xsnaggle]

Naw, forget this, it's not worth the hassle.

Enjoy!!!!

[Harry Monk]

I think this is probably the best quote in the article - "As in any investigation we can only speculate on what has been published until there’s official information..."

[fred keenor]

JFK junior in 1999 suffered the same fate, similar plane as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F...r._plane_crash

[AlwaysAway2]

What amazes me is that over two weeks after the tragic loss .... no one can definitively say whether the pilot was qualified with an IMC rating.
Being able to fly Instrument Metrological Conditions means qualified to fly in bad visibility ... ie Clouds Fog Mist Snow etc...
As a former PPL holder I could have a good shot at flying a plane VFR (Visual Flight Rules) in clear skies even now. But I could not fly IMC because it is bloody difficult.
If you have a VFR licence and fly into cloud you are trained to turn slowly through 180 degrees and fly out into clear skies.
One obvious reason for asking to descend is bad visibility ie cloud.

I suspect the AAIB cannot establish whether the pilot was properly IMC rated.

[Harry Monk]

What amazes me is that over two weeks after the tragic loss .... no one can definitively say whether the pilot was qualified with an IMC rating.
Being able to fly Instrument Metrological Conditions means qualified to fly in bad visibility ... ie Clouds Fog Mist Snow etc...
As a former PPL holder I could have a good shot at flying a plane VFR (Visual Flight Rules) in clear skies even now. But I could not fly IMC because it is bloody difficult.
If you have a VFR licence and fly into cloud you are trained to turn slowly through 180 degrees and fly out into clear skies.
One obvious reason for asking to descend is bad visibility ie cloud.

I suspect the AAIB cannot establish whether the pilot was properly IMC rated.

I suspect that they probably can, but will not publish anything until they've finished their investigation.

[Vindec]

What amazes me is that over two weeks after the tragic loss .... no one can definitively say whether the pilot was qualified with an IMC rating.
Being able to fly Instrument Metrological Conditions means qualified to fly in bad visibility ... ie Clouds Fog Mist Snow etc...
As a former PPL holder I could have a good shot at flying a plane VFR (Visual Flight Rules) in clear skies even now. But I could not fly IMC because it is bloody difficult.
If you have a VFR licence and fly into cloud you are trained to turn slowly through 180 degrees and fly out into clear skies.
One obvious reason for asking to descend is bad visibility ie cloud.

I suspect the AAIB cannot establish whether the pilot was properly IMC rated.

It was pitch black so there must have been zero visibility.

[AlwaysAway2]

It was pitch black so there must have been zero visibility.

Not true actually.
At night flying VFR in clear skies with a night rating you can see the South coast of England from the Channel Islands at 5,000 feet and both major shipping lanes traffic ahead or beneath you.
If the weather was bad then it may well have been zero visibility and a non IMC pilot … someone unqualified for the conditions …. should not have been flying at all, let alone with a passenger. AJMHO.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Whatever the topic, there is absolutely no reason to turn a thread into a personal attack on a contribtributor, by making snidey remarks that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I have been respectful in my postings, and I have tried to keep to the facts without making any wild speculation, as have many others.

This has been the top news story worldwide for a number of weeks, and many details about the flight are already in the public domain. Millions of people want to know what happened as they try to understand what went wrong during this senseless tradegy.

It is my opinion that this flight should never have taken place at night during the middle of winter, and just to correct your statement, I don't view events as ‘who might be to blame’, but rather as ‘what might be to blame’.

Sorry pal - it wasn’t intended as a personal attack, merely a true expression of how your posts have made me feel as this thing has unfolded

[Wales-Bales]

Sorry pal - it wasn’t intended as a personal attack, merely a true expression of how your posts have made me feel as this thing has unfolded

I wasn't referring to you, it was about those comments further up the thread.

People are different. For example, there are some who think the mourning of strangers is rediculous, and they have no problem making their thoughts clear in threads where people are actively expressing their grief. I am not one of them. I am saddened by the loss of Sala, and I fully supported all of the tributes.

Regarding events surrounding the accident, I view it as a separate matter. I feel a sense of quiet anger that Sala lost his life in what appears to be preventable circumstances. Like many, I have followed events closely trying to understand what happened. There have been specific discussions on here regarding the cause of the accident, and I have only contributed what I believe to be true, so that others can get a better understanding of what happened that night.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

I wasn't referring to you, it was about those comments further up the thread.

People are different. For example, there are some who think the mourning of strangers is rediculous, and they have no problem making their thoughts clear in threads where people are actively expressing their grief. I am not one of them. I am saddened by the loss of Sala, and I fully supported all of the tributes.

Regarding events surrounding the accident, I view it as a separate matter. I feel a sense of quiet anger that Sala lost his life in what appears to be preventable circumstances. Like many, I have followed events closely trying to understand what happened. There have been specific discussions on here regarding the cause of the accident, and I have only contributed what I believe to be true, so that others can get a better understanding of what happened that night.

Fair enough and I can at least acknowledge that point of view. Indeed in some other matters I’ll also look for a scapegoat, but when it’s the life of a 27 year old young man who is still missing, I’m just not wired that way.