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Thread: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

  1. #26

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    A comedian who understands where UK politics is 2019.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ain-all-at-sea

  2. #27

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    A comedian who understands where UK politics is 2019.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ain-all-at-sea
    I appreciate the message behind the article and he is spot on with a lot he says about the political landscape. However it is a little bit like the claim that 'both sides lied' during the referendum, clearly one side was playing with the truth (and people's lives) more.

    Which is more damaging? A party whose policies have helped lead to the deaths of many of the vulnerable people it is trusted to look after or a party whose leadership stands by and allows a small percentage of its members to say vile things on twitter.

  3. #28

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    A comedian who understands where UK politics is 2019.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ain-all-at-sea
    Yep he seems to have nailed it ,even today you see a shift ,which sniffs of self protection .
    They could all be in for a shock if a second vote is forced, voters may see through the end game , of survival politics, or do as we tell you we know best even after a referendum.

    What a mess.

  4. #29

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Yep he seems to have nailed it ,even today you see a shift ,which sniffs of self protection .
    They could all be in for a shock if a second vote is forced, voters may see through the end game , of survival politics, or do as we tell you we know best even after a referendum.

    What a mess.
    At least if it happens this time people will be more well informed rather than being sucked in by some bullshit on the side of a red bus

  5. #30

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    At least if it happens this time people will be more well informed rather than being sucked in by some bullshit on the side of a red bus
    Do you get that impression because I don't? People have had the opportunity to be better informed but I don't think many have taken it.

  6. #31

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Do you get that impression because I don't? People have had the opportunity to be better informed but I don't think many have taken it.
    I’ve managed to convince a few of my mates so hope springs eternal 😂

  7. #32

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I appreciate the message behind the article and he is spot on with a lot he says about the political landscape. However it is a little bit like the claim that 'both sides lied' during the referendum, clearly one side was playing with the truth (and people's lives) more.

    Which is more damaging? A party whose policies have helped lead to the deaths of many of the vulnerable people it is trusted to look after or a party whose leadership stands by and allows a small percentage of its members to say vile things on twitter.
    I agree that in terms of culpability the Conservative party are the bigger offenders here (essentially, the in or out of Europe debate of the past forty years and more has been Conservative party driven).

    However, the line about "if you don’t like Jeremy Corbyn, you’re a Tory." chimed with me in particular. The only time I've been impressed by Corbyn was during the 2017 election campaign. During the more "mundane" stuff which constitutes about 95% of political life, he comes over as mediocre to me and I reckon this is because, at heart is a campaigner more than a politician - he is temperamentally unsuited for leadership of a major political party and so I believe strongly that he is a poor leader of the Labour party.

    Increasingly, it seems to me that views like this are not tolerated in the modern day Labour party and in the simplistic, political world of 2019, that is enough to make me a tory in some people's eyes. Believe me, that has never been the case and never will be, but I can definitely see why there are many who do not feel they have a political home these days.

  8. #33

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I agree that in terms of culpability the Conservative party are the bigger offenders here (essentially, the in or out of Europe debate of the past forty years and more has been Conservative party driven).

    However, the line about "if you don’t like Jeremy Corbyn, you’re a Tory." chimed with me in particular. The only time I've been impressed by Corbyn was during the 2017 election campaign. During the more "mundane" stuff which constitutes about 95% of political life, he comes over as mediocre to me and I reckon this is because, at heart is a campaigner more than a politician - he is temperamentally unsuited for leadership of a major political party and so I believe strongly that he is a poor leader of the Labour party.

    Increasingly, it seems to me that views like this are not tolerated in the modern day Labour party and in the simplistic, political world of 2019, that is enough to make me a tory in some people's eyes. Believe me, that has never been the case and never will be, but I can definitely see why there are many who do not feel they have a political home these days.
    Nice summary Paul , yes if you do speak out against the Corbyn / Williamson type project and wrongly badged politically . Its typical of todays bully keyboard tactics, nice isnt always associated to the new Labour project ,which is very sad indeed .

    So much for inclusiveness.

    Voter abstaining amongst moderate Labour voters is a big worry for me .

  9. #34

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    If only they gave the job to David

  10. #35

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Do you get that impression because I don't? People have had the opportunity to be better informed but I don't think many have taken it.
    Think your right , you can only gauge whats around you ,of the folk I know nothing really has changed in their intentions.I think the leavers are very in trenched .

  11. #36

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Can you blame them for being entrenched? The Brexit referendum ballot paper questions were unambiguous; no ifs, buts, maybes or any other caveats were included. The majority of participants placed their X next to: Leave the European Union.

  12. #37

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Morgan. View Post
    Can you blame them for being entrenched? The Brexit referendum ballot paper questions were unambiguous; no ifs, buts, maybes or any other caveats were included. The majority of participants placed their X next to: Leave the European Union.
    But even now you could argue the unambiguous nature would see mass demonstrations, bigger outcry and effort to force our political elite to stay in I just dont see or hear it in any great volume, you'd have to accept that folk are now better informed after all this debate .

    The big mystery for me, why wasn't the back stop a bigger campaign issue for remain 2 years ago it would have upped the project fear agenda .

    Labour and remainers now chirp on and on about the Irish issues now , and JC appears all of a sudden very concerned ,didn't seem so then?

    I believe if JC had strongly campaigned to remain , they would have won , and he may have been in a better place now ,and better organised than the OP's title .

  13. #38

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    But even now you could argue the unambiguous nature would see mass demonstrations, bigger outcry and effort to force our political elite to stay in I just dont see or hear it in any great volume, you'd have to accept that folk are now better informed after all this debate .

    The big mystery for me, why wasn't the back stop a bigger campaign issue for remain 2 years ago it would have upped the project fear agenda .

    Labour and remainers now chirp on and on about the Irish issues now , and JC appears all of a sudden very concerned ,didn't seem so then?

    I believe if JC had strongly campaigned to remain , they would have won , and he may have been in a better place now ,and better organised than the OP's title .
    It was all odd at the time for me remainers seemed to want to have petty arguments than campaign to make people want to vote remain, we the people have been badly let down by the government

  14. #39

    Re: With the Tories in meltdown, Labour manages to make them look organised!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieccfc View Post
    It was all odd at the time for me remainers seemed to want to have petty arguments than campaign to make people want to vote remain, we the people have been badly let down by the government
    They probably thought that they would win the remain easily , therefore didn't apply the bigger risk issues.

    I still dont get the silence at the time on the Irish back stop as it now seems to be the key issue to an agreement, I cant find any stance on coming out, but staying in the customs union ,all of which are now key components of labour's objections to the deal.

    Its really weird the whole argument seems to have moved from free movement and what we pay into the EU, to the Customs Union ,and Irish Back stop.

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