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Thread: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

  1. #76

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Right, having got all that off your chest, let's see what I actually said in that post you replied to. I thought I made it clear that Martin Samuel made some valid points and that I found it hard to argue against the motivation for recent stories from the club's perspective regarding the payment of the Sala fee being money. However, in essence, I only wanted to make two points;-

    1. My belief that Vincent Tan could well have acted in a similar fashion to the way he did against Malky Mackay and Iain Moody if Emiliano Sala was alive and playing for us now.
    2. To show that Neil Warnock and Martin Samuel have a history which would make it hard for either man to be objective about the other.

    That word objective seems to be an important one to you based on the way you use it in your message and I plead guilty to a lack of objectivity when it comes to my football club. For example, I don't like the football Neil Warnock teams play, but I can cope with it when we win because I celebrate any City victory under Warnock in exactly the same way I did under any other manager - my footballing preferences tend to go out of the window when we win I'm afraid.

    However, I like to think that I try to retain some objectivity, hence my concession that Martin Samuel's article is generally "effective" and that he "hits the target often".

    You talk as if I have been backing Neil Warnock all of the way over the past few weeks when my belief is that I have, purposely, not said much one way or another about him - I posted links which show that Martin Samuel has "previous" when it comes to Neil Warnock, but there are examples out there of it happening the other way around, so, as I mentioned earlier, we're talking about two men who are unlikely to be objective about one and other.

    I'm reluctant to comment much on the rest of what you say except to mention that over a period of years I think I have shown that I favour the cock up theory over the conspiracy one when it comes to the time covered by Vincent Tan's ownership of the club.

    My unwillingness to say any more than that for now is down to me trying to show some objectivity by waiting until the publication of the AAIB's interim report, which I believe was due out tomorrow but has now been postponed for a week.

    I've given you what I think is a civil reply, but cannot help but mention that you left objectivity behind years ago when it comes to Cardiff City didn't you. I find it truly sad that some seven years after the rebrand was announced you still cannot let go can you.

    I'm going to stick you on ignore now and won't be replying to any of your messages again.

  2. #77

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Think he blames me for his latest ban.
    Oh, are you referring to the time you made a public comment on me that I replied to in private, before you then replied again in public - and then Mike banned me for replying to you? Yeah, you definitely have the moral highground on that one

  3. #78

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by JennyWren View Post
    Oh, are you referring to the time you made a public comment on me that I replied to in private, before you then replied again in public - and then Mike banned me for replying to you? Yeah, you definitely have the moral highground on that one
    This guy needs to be banned for his own good.

  4. #79

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    This guy needs to be banned for his own good.
    He has a go at someone like Bob and his posts. While he has resurfaced again this time pretending to be a Cardiff fan starting a sh!t stirring thread demanding the removal of our manager amongst other garbage.

    Moral highground FFS.

    Multis , sh!t stirring when pretending to be a fan. Not rocket science the bans. Needs removing permanently.

  5. #80

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by not telling View Post
    Cardiff may have insurance cover for Sala, in which case the insurers would only pay out anything Cardiff are obliged to pay. The directors of the club have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the club. If I were a director of the club, I would want to know absolutely everything about the transfer, who gets what, whether there is an obligation to pay and whether any party has the opportunity to mitigate their losses, so I know exactly what I am obliged to pay when I ask the insurers to cough up.

    So yes, everything changes as a result of the death of Sala.

    Secondly, the Crystal Palace thing. Given that Leeds have just been fined for spying, if Cardiff thought something like that was going on, they have every right to kick up.

    Hatchet job to sell that crappy rag.

  6. #81

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Some people ( and I’m not talking about agents or club chairman etc) really are sad cases.

    Some of the shite I’ve just read is as low as the Saints fan who got thrown out a couple of weeks back.

  7. #82

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Sala-died.html

    First thing I'd say about the article is that it is effective and hits the target often, he asks pertinent questions regarding some of City's dealings in the past and the charge that it is all about the money with the club is a hard one to argue against.

    However, a major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us? My own view is that City's off field management were reactive, rather than proactive, when it came to the Cornelius transfer and the same may be true about Sala as well, but I think Samuel is misjudging Vincent Tan when it comes to when he would turn to litigation.

    While reading the article, I also had a vague memory of Neil Warnock mentioning Martin Samuel, and not in a complimentary way, by name in one of his press conference as City manager, so I did some checking and I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of history between the two men;-

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...lace-boss.html

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...el-b6rqmbt5zk5

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ek-433835.html

    http://archive.onetouchfootball.com/...1;t=010196;p=3

    Samuel also wrote a piece on last season's FA Cup match with Man City which had the subtitle "Guardiola masterclass gives Cardiff cloggers the boot".

    it's a powerful piece by Samuel and I believe he makes a number of valid points, but he is hardly an impartial bystander in all of this and I find it hard to avoid the feeling that the article might have read differently if Neil Warnock was not our manager.
    Just two initial responses showing that Mr Samuel has shown himself up by seeking to dovetail his article into an agenda he has.

    (1) BAMBA:
    "Bamba went from starting the 2016-17 season as Leeds United captain to having his contract cancelled after four games, meaning he joined Cardiff as a free agent. This seems a very peculiar situation, but clearly no need for alarms — particularly as Bamba has arguably been Cardiff's best player, certainly this season, and is very much alive."
    "Are they [City] asking the same questions about Bamba's deal [SP: as Sala deal]? Are they asking why Leeds would cancel the contract of their captain and let him go to a rival from the same division?"

    What is so peculiar with his move to Cardiff City or the fact that on Sept 1st 2016 Leeds released him (Wikipedia)? What's peculiar that he subsequently trained at Derby (Wikipedia)? What's peculiar that he subsequently didn't sign for City until Oct 2016? Why need City question anything over Leeds' releasing of Bamba. What is Samuel insinuating here? The Bamba and Sala moves have nothing in common, despite Samuel trying to insinuate they did, apart from the fact both players were going to City. The, 'very much alive,' phrase is in appallingly bad taste for obvious reasons to everyone apart from Mr Samuel.

    Seems the article is just slanted to try to seem some sort of alleged unethical activity by City.

    (2) CORNELIUS:
    "Cornelius, like Sala, was supposed to score the goals to keep Cardiff in the Premier League. He was a dismal flop, failing to find the net in any of his 11 games."

    True he made 11 appearances but the majority were as a subsititute. He was subsequently injured for 5 months never regaining fitness to appear for City again. This is poorly researched and allows a perceived opinion to over-ride facts. Again it could be inferred that Samuel is being economical with the truth to try to make out some unethical activity by City.

    Contrast his writing with the excellent investigative reporting by the recent Telegraph article and chalk and cheese come to mind.

    StT.
    <><

  8. #83

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I can't say for certain, but I believe the 13/14 season was about six weeks/two months old when Vincent Tan first mentioned his dissatisfaction with the Cornelius transfer - I've not been able to find anything to confirm that though.

    As for your second question, yes you are right.
    You are correct Bob, the painter and decorator being employed as chief scout was after 6 weeks and obviously an effort to get MM to resign.

  9. #84

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Tea View Post
    Just two initial responses showing that Mr Samuel has shown himself up by seeking to dovetail his article into an agenda he has.

    (1) BAMBA:
    "Bamba went from starting the 2016-17 season as Leeds United captain to having his contract cancelled after four games, meaning he joined Cardiff as a free agent. This seems a very peculiar situation, but clearly no need for alarms — particularly as Bamba has arguably been Cardiff's best player, certainly this season, and is very much alive."
    "Are they [City] asking the same questions about Bamba's deal [SP: as Sala deal]? Are they asking why Leeds would cancel the contract of their captain and let him go to a rival from the same division?"

    What is so peculiar with his move to Cardiff City or the fact that on Sept 1st 2016 Leeds released him (Wikipedia)? What's peculiar that he subsequently trained at Derby (Wikipedia)? What's peculiar that he subsequently didn't sign for City until Oct 2016? Why need City question anything over Leeds' releasing of Bamba. What is Samuel insinuating here? The Bamba and Sala moves have nothing in common, despite Samuel trying to insinuate they did, apart from the fact both players were going to City. The, 'very much alive,' phrase is in appallingly bad taste for obvious reasons to everyone apart from Mr Samuel.

    Seems the article is just slanted to try to seem some sort of alleged unethical activity by City.

    (2) CORNELIUS:
    "Cornelius, like Sala, was supposed to score the goals to keep Cardiff in the Premier League. He was a dismal flop, failing to find the net in any of his 11 games."

    True he made 11 appearances but the majority were as a subsititute. He was subsequently injured for 5 months never regaining fitness to appear for City again. This is poorly researched and allows a perceived opinion to over-ride facts. Again it could be inferred that Samuel is being economical with the truth to try to make out some unethical activity by City.

    Contrast his writing with the excellent investigative reporting by the recent Telegraph article and chalk and cheese come to mind.

    StT.
    <><
    But the Daily Mail sports section is excellent!

  10. #85

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    When I moved from one employer to another, no one offered me a relocation fee or offered to pay for my transport to my new work place. How I travel in my own time is also a choice for me and not my employer, and I don't have to tell them how I'm doing it either.
    But if your prostitute brought you an unlicensed taxi for your ride home, would your insurance cover it?
    And if you where on company travels, you don't think it would both smudge the company name and reflect badly on you and your prostitute? After all, they had their name tied with prostitution. A bit deep, I know. And I don't think you are a 15 million asset, how ever good you are.

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