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Thread: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

  1. #26

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by not telling View Post
    Cardiff may have insurance cover for Sala, in which case the insurers would only pay out anything Cardiff are obliged to pay. The directors of the club have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the club. If I were a director of the club, I would want to know absolutely everything about the transfer, who gets what, whether there is an obligation to pay and whether any party has the opportunity to mitigate their losses, so I know exactly what I am obliged to pay when I ask the insurers to cough up.

    So yes, everything changes as a result of the death of Sala.

    Secondly, the Crystal Palace thing. Given that Leeds have just been fined for spying, if Cardiff thought something like that was going on, they have every right to kick up.

    Hatchet job to sell that crappy rag.
    But according to some on here, the DM have the best sports writers around

  2. #27

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    I see normal service has resumed

  3. #28

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Accuses us of links with Warnock's son and proceeds to list 3 players signed before Neil arrived, nice one Martin

  4. #29

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by not telling View Post
    ...........................The directors of the club have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the club. If I were a director of the club, I would want to know absolutely everything about the transfer, who gets what, whether there is an obligation to pay and whether any party has the opportunity to mitigate their losses, so I know exactly what I am obliged to pay when I ask the insurers to cough up.

    I agree with that except some people might argue they should have known everything about the transfer prior to the flight. Now we are where we are the directors have no option but to make every attempt to mitigate the loss.

  5. #30

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Bamba left Leeds on September 1 2016 citing personal reasons (which as far as I know were never disclosed).

    One month and four days later Warnock arrives at CCFC. Think it’s fair to say the writing was on the wall for Trollope before that.

    Bamba’s agent - big Willie McKay.

    Have other clubs got a relationship with McKay? Undoubtedly - but we’re the ones who were lumbered with his sons (signed under Warnock) so it’s safe to assume our/Warnock’s relationship with McKay is closer than others.
    You make a case for a relationship between Warnock and McKay, but I specifically said City because I fail to see how any sort of case against Messrs Tan, Dalman and Choo could be made on the basis of some sort of deal whereby Leeds cancel Bamba's contract with the object of letting us have him as part of deal concocted between Neil Warnock and the hierarchy at City at a time when Trollope had only been in charge for three or four matches.

  6. #31

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    But according to some on here, the DM have the best sports writers around
    If this was about any other club you might think the article is well written and researched.

  7. #32

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I agree with that except some people might argue they should have known everything about the transfer prior to the flight. Now we are where we are the directors have no option but to make every attempt to mitigate the loss.
    Before the event, the questions are:
    How much am I paying and what am I getting?
    What are the terms and how does this affect the cash flow?
    Is any of this cash going anywhere the could turn out to be embarrassing?
    Have we complied with all relevant legislation - money laundering, Bribery Act?

    The detail goes up a notch when you are asking the insurers to foot the bill.

  8. #33
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    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loramski View Post
    You've misread the bit about Jack McKay, he said Willie McKay 'helped broker' the deal.

    I think you're right about Bamba though, Monk admitted at the time that he was responsible for his exit.

    https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....monk-1-8114966
    You are right about the Jack McKay bit as it is worded now. However, I'm fairly confident the Mail Online has changed the way that para was originally punctuated to change its meaning. I made the mistake of commenting below the line - after reading that bit very carefully - and all the online press (WOL especially) use the moderating delay to correct cockups, errors and idiocies pointed out by readers.

    Bottom line for me is that Samuel is partly right and makes some valid points, but has gone OTT with some sloppy claims and his own agenda (aimed more at Warnock than Cardiff). There will be more of this kind of stuff before it becomes chip paper.

  9. #34

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Firstly, it's £15m. It's not peanuts, especially for us. I'm sorry but we've got to look out for number 1, just like Nantes are doing. I don't think anyone could have envisaged that happened but there comes a time when we have to stop paying for him to get private jets every time he wants one. Bruno for example, goes to Heathrow for internationals.

    Healey, Morrison and Noone seem odd examples to pick, and this won't exactly be uncommon in football. Look at Wolves, or even Man United's relationship with agents. The Bamba part is extremely odd, it literally makes no sense. Leeds let him go months before Warnock was even appointed. Also to slap down the club for the way they handled it, is just him trying to get a response. Dragging in Moody and Mackay again just to throw more mud in the hope some of it sticks.

    Samuel makes some valid points, and if it was up to me, the McKay's would be out on their arse, but they're not the target. He also says that such acts by McKay are common place etc, so why aren't they the brunt of his criticism? If that's the way football is conducted and the club have to work in that world, they shouldn't be getting too much criticism.

    Then again, Samuel has always been a tosser.

  10. #35

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Bottom line for me is that Samuel is partly right and makes some valid points, but has gone OTT with some sloppy claims and his own agenda (aimed more at Warnock than Cardiff). There will be more of this kind of stuff before it becomes chip paper.
    Samuel has called ROI "predators" over Declan Rice today. The bloke's a joke. He's also written articles that Grealish shouldn't be allowed to play for Ireland but in the same article, that Januzaj should have a choice. He's as one eyed as it comes.

  11. #36

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Interesting comments about the Bamba signing. When you see it like that in black and white it does seem a little...odd.

    Signing of the Mckay twins is just embarrassing.
    I thought so too when reading that but it's not true. Leeds fans agreed with the club for letting him go and agreed that it was time he found another club. Nothing under handed here.

  12. #37

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Der Kaiser View Post
    It's fairly obvious at this point that someone at Cardiff City has upset someone at the Daily Mail.
    I think Bob makes it obvious who is upset at the Daily Mail

  13. #38

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc View Post
    I think Bob makes it obvious who is upset at the Daily Mail
    I was referring to the fact the Mail were also pushing the Bellamy stories, who weren't written by Martin Samuel. Wanker.

  14. #39

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Interesting comments about the Bamba signing. When you see it like that in black and white it does seem a little...odd.
    Bamba was released by Leeds. Over a month later we appointed Warnock. It's utter bollocks what Samuel has written regarding that but he's trying to drag as many people into this as he can.

  15. #40

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    He claims Jack McKay 'helped broker' the Sala deal. Rubbish. Jack and Paul McKay may not be worth professional player contracts with Cardiff (and they are evidence I think of an unhealthy backscratching relationship with the McKay empire), but the twins are not agents. All Jack did was pass on to Emiliano Sala a free flight offer from his father/brother.

    The references to Sol Bamba leaving Leeds - whatever agents were involved - are pathetic. Sol publicly criticised the Leeds owner at the time and was shown the door via the bench and the reserves. Garry Monk got some temporary brownie points for it, but I haven't seen any suggestion that Willie McKay engineered the situation to benefit Cardiff a year later!

    Samuel is right in some of his claims, and I doubt our club would be questioning so many elements of the deal if the plane had landed safely in Cardiff that night - but he seems to wilfully ignore the way McKay has put his dishonesty and full role into the public domain since the tragedy. I think the club may have gone after too many targets - and invited hostile press coverage and comment as a result - but I'm glad they haven't ignored it.
    It is an inconsistency isn't it. On the one hand, the attitude appears to be "well, we all know what agents are like and it's inevitable that things like this are going to happen" and, on the other, he goes through the club's dealings with a fine toothcomb to the extent that he is talking about three players, who use a company which has Neil Warnock's son on their payroll, that signed for us years before his father became our manager - three players who, to the best of my knowledge, had never played for a club managed by Warnock before he came here. I can see a conflict of interest now that Neil Warnock is our manager, but how does that exist in the period 2012 to 2014 when Morrison, Noone and Healey signed for Cardiff?

  16. #41

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It is an inconsistency isn't it. On the one hand, the attitude appears to be "well, we all know what agents are like and it's inevitable that things like this are going to happen" and, on the other, he goes through the club's dealings with a fine toothcomb to the extent that he is talking about three players, who use a company which has Neil Warnock's son on their payroll, that signed for us years before his father became our manager - three players who, to the best of my knowledge, had never played for a club managed by Warnock before he came here. I can see a conflict of interest now that Neil Warnock is our manager, but how does that exist in the period 2012 to 2014 when Morrison, Noone and Healey signed for Cardiff?
    Exactly, he clearly has an agenda. I think we should just pay Nantes the first instalment, then go after insurance for whoever arranged that flight.

  17. #42

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It is an inconsistency isn't it. On the one hand, the attitude appears to be "well, we all know what agents are like and it's inevitable that things like this are going to happen" and, on the other, he goes through the club's dealings with a fine toothcomb to the extent that he is talking about three players, who use a company which has Neil Warnock's son on their payroll, that signed for us years before his father became our manager - three players who, to the best of my knowledge, had never played for a club managed by Warnock before he came here. I can see a conflict of interest now that Neil Warnock is our manager, but how does that exist in the period 2012 to 2014 when Morrison, Noone and Healey signed for Cardiff?
    Samuel hates Warnock. He raises some good points but there's too much bile and rubbish that dilutes his argument. There are basic errors and extremely tenuous links that just makes it a smear article, rather than having any real merit.

    As you say, his attitude of "this is how football works" and then Cardiff use McKay and are therefore bad is just mad. As I've said before, I'd be happy if the McKays had nothing to do with us ever again but if we want to sign players from France that might be difficult, although I can't see it happening in the short term!

  18. #43

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Apart from stating at the very outset that a number of things will unravel in due course I have refrained from commenting on this case so far. However, it's not without a certain irony that signing an expensive, marquee centre forward to keep us in the Premier League has again resulted in opening a can of worms regarding agents and all the other parties involved in such transfers. No doubts such activities are ubiquitous in the world of football but they seem to have been particularly highlighted by the two aforementioned events at our club.

  19. #44

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Bamba was released by Leeds. Over a month later we appointed Warnock. It's utter bollocks what Samuel has written regarding that but he's trying to drag as many people into this as he can.
    Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

    Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.

  20. #45

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Bamba left Leeds on September 1 2016 citing personal reasons (which as far as I know were never disclosed).

    One month and four days later Warnock arrives at CCFC. Think it’s fair to say the writing was on the wall for Trollope before that.

    Bamba’s agent - big Willie McKay.

    Have other clubs got a relationship with McKay? Undoubtedly - but we’re the ones who were lumbered with his sons (signed under Warnock) so it’s safe to assume our/Warnock’s relationship with McKay is closer than others.
    Why are you posting drivel like this. Talk about conspiracy theories !. Over the last two years it has been stated publicly by Bamba and NW, on a number of occasions, that they knew each other well previously and that when Bamba left Leeds (and NW was out of a job at the time) they spoke and that NW told Bamba to hold fire on signing for anyone because it was very likely that he (NW) would be back employed shortly and that the first thing he would do is bring Bamba on board. Bamba agreed to this because of his respect and like for NW. He had offers from other clubs but turned them down because he knew that NW was a man of his word and wanted to work with him again. The rest is history. Nothing to do with Willie Mckay or any other agent.

  21. #46

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

    Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.
    He had nowhere else to go if he'd stayed at Leeds, the transfer window had shut the day before. I've already put up a link where Monk explains how it was his call that Bamba left (https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....monk-1-8114966). Feel free to put up some links of your own that contradict it.

  22. #47

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    Bamba asked to be released from a lucrative contact at Leeds with apparently nowhere else to go. Or perhaps someone had a word in his ear and told him he'd get himself a lovely signing on fee if he made himself a freebie.

    Not even sure if there is anything wrong with that.
    Other people have put articles on this, and as someone who lives in Leeds, their fans weren't exactly sorry to see him go. There is nothing dodgy going on here, Leeds didn't want him. He was out of the side and on decent money, so they paid him up. Warnock told him to wait until he had a job but that's hardly immoral. Samuel has put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5.

  23. #48

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    If this was about any other club you might think the article is well written and researched.
    I doubt that very much. For one thing I wouldn't have even opened the link had it been about another club.

    Whether it is researched and well written or not isn't the point as far as I'm concerned.
    Did/do any of us doubt that that football isn't broken and there is mass corruption happening 24/7?

    As has been said previously, it seems that this piece is personal, Samuel is getting after Warnock and throw in the fact it is Cardiff City... bonus time.

  24. #49

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    I doubt that very much. For one thing I wouldn't have even opened the link had it been about another club.

    Whether it is researched and well written or not isn't the point as far as I'm concerned.
    Did/do any of us doubt that that football isn't broken and there is mass corruption happening 24/7?

    As has been said previously, it seems that this piece is personal, Samuel is getting after Warnock and throw in the fact it is Cardiff City... bonus time.
    Samuel is now a shock jock and has been for some time.

    https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...jack-grealish/

  25. #50

    Re: Daily Mail's Martin Samuel does a hatchet job on City.

    TOBW, you said: "A major flaw in Samuel's argument for me is the way he claims that none of this would be happening if Emiliano Sala were still alive. He brings attention to the Vincent Tan/ Malky Mackay/Iain Moody situation while making particular reference to the Andreas Cornelius transfer, but doesn't our owner's use of the legal system in that case show that there is at least the possibility that City would be acting in exactly the same way if Emiliano was still with us?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but hadn't Cornelius been at the club for a number of months and been proving a disappointment before Tan began questioning his transfer? Also, wasn't his 'legal investigation' into Mackay and Moody far more wide-ranging than the Cornelius transfer alone?

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