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Thread: RESULT Shamima Begum

  1. #176

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Due process has been jettisoned on a populist whim to the delight of Sun reader types hereabouts.

    If it's felt she's committed illegal acts under British law then issue an international arrest warrant as with every other suspected crim.

  2. #177

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    Quite agree, about form filling but as you see in the link as her mother and father are Bangladesh she is according to their laws a Bangladesh citizen by descent.
    And she would need to give evidence of this. They won't just approve it because it says in the papers that her parents are Bangladeshi.

  3. #178

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    What crimes has she committed? I haven't particularly followed the story, so has she killed anyone or anything?
    She had two attempts at spawning future IS fighters, she was successful at the 3td attempt

  4. #179

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    But what Lardy is saying that until she fills in, signs, sends off the form and gets her approval back she is not officially a Bangladeshi citizen, even if she is entitled to it, and therefore by revoking her British citizenship with out her having her Bangladeshi membership card the UK are making her stateless.
    Ummm did I not just agree to his post about filling in forms, you should read my reply to him
    Quote "Quite agree, about form filling" un-quote

  5. #180

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Perhaps you can read his post about my username and explain to me what he was on about. His post
    "EDIT: Let me put that another way. Anyone who has the username igovernor is automatically entitled to ten quid from me. Is that ten quid in your pocket now?"

  6. #181

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    Ummm did I not just agree to his post about filling in forms, you should read my reply to him
    Quote "Quite agree, about form filling" un-quote
    Yes. I read it, but you were still banging on about her already being a Bangladeshi citizen.

  7. #182

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    What the hell are you on about?
    Perhaps you can read his post about my username and explain to me what he was on about. His post
    "EDIT: Let me put that another way. Anyone who has the username igovernor is automatically entitled to ten quid from me. Is that ten quid in your pocket now?"

  8. #183

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    Perhaps you can read his post about my username and explain to me what he was on about. His post
    "EDIT: Let me put that another way. Anyone who has the username igovernor is automatically entitled to ten quid from me. Is that ten quid in your pocket now?"
    Gladly.

    If you are eligible, I don't know it until you tell me. The tenner doesn't magically appear.

    One more example. Let's say City season ticket holders can get a free hat from the club shop. You are entitled to it automatically. But you still need to prove you are entitled by showing your season ticket.

    In the same way, she may be automatically entitled to be a citizen, but she still needs to prove it (with birth certificates or whatever).

  9. #184

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    Perhaps you can read his post about my username and explain to me what he was on about. His post
    "EDIT: Let me put that another way. Anyone who has the username igovernor is automatically entitled to ten quid from me. Is that ten quid in your pocket now?"
    Yes, he is saying you are entitled to £10 but you don't have £10 in your pocket. She may be entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship but she doesn't have it. I wouldn't go chucking around "intelligent" in your arguments if you can't understand a simple metaphor.

  10. #185

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    Yes. I read it, but you were still banging on about her already being a Bangladeshi citizen.
    According to the Bangladesh government she already is, stop splitting hairs, here is the link again for you to properly read it!

    http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=7472

  11. #186

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    According to the Bangladesh government she already is, stop splitting hairs, here is the link again for you to properly read it!

    http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...2§ions_id=7472
    No, according to the government someone in her position is. She simply needs to prove it.

  12. #187

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    According to the Bangladesh government she already is, stop splitting hairs, here is the link again for you to properly read it!

    http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...2§ions_id=7472
    The wording from that site is:

    "5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:



    Provided that if the 2[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-



    (a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or



    (b) that person's 3[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.
    "

    This is the important part. Has she been registered? her solicitor states that she is not a dual national, so it would appear she has not been.

  13. #188

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    The wording from that site is:

    "5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:



    Provided that if the 2[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-



    (a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or



    (b) that person's 3[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.
    "

    This is the important part. Has she been registered? her solicitor states that she is not a dual national, so it would appear she has not been.
    I interpreted that to mean that the bold part only applies if the parents weren't born in Bangladesh and only got their citizenship from the grandparents birthplace. Which may or may not be her situation, I've no idea.

  14. #189

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I interpreted that to mean that the bold part only applies if the parents weren't born in Bangladesh and only got their citizenship from the grandparents birthplace. Which may or may not be her situation, I've no idea.
    Maybe we could find a Bangladeshi immigration/citizenship lawyer to interpret it for us.

  15. #190

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    The wording from that site is:

    "5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[ father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:



    Provided that if the 2[ father or mother] of such person is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless-



    (a) that person's birth having occurred in a country outside Bangladesh the birth is registered at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country, or where there is no Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in that country at the prescribed Consulate or Mission or at a Bangladesh Consulate or Mission in the country nearest to that country; or



    (b) that person's 3[ father or mother] is, at the time of the birth, in the service of any Government in Bangladesh.
    "

    This is the important part. Has she been registered? her solicitor states that she is not a dual national, so it would appear she has not been.

    The way I read it was that if the mother or father were born outside of Bangladesh then they cannot provide citizenship by descent unless one of the rules apply.

    the sentence "that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless"

  16. #191

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstool View Post
    The way I read it was that if the mother or father were born outside of Bangladesh then they cannot provide citizenship by descent unless one of the rules apply.

    the sentence "that person shall not be a citizen of Bangladesh by virtue of this section unless"
    But her parents were born in Bangladesh, that is why "5" applies she is a descendant of two Bangladesh citizens, I am going to give up now, no good me posting a link that clarifies that she is automatically a Bangladesh citizen no matter where she was born, and not many can understand what it means

  17. #192

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    But her parents were born in Bangladesh, that is why "5" applies she is a descendant of two Bangladesh citizens, I am going to give up now, no good me posting a link that clarifies that she is automatically a Bangladesh citizen no matter where she was born, and not many can understand what it means
    This is the point though, it doesn't say that. It says she is entitled to it. The birth still has to be registered at the Bangladeshi Consulate/Mission.

  18. #193

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    Maybe we could find a Bangladeshi immigration/citizenship lawyer to interpret it for us.
    Ask igovenor he has a degree in that from the university of Wikipedia.

  19. #194

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    But her parents were born in Bangladesh, that is why "5" applies she is a descendant of two Bangladesh citizens, I am going to give up now, no good me posting a link that clarifies that she is automatically a Bangladesh citizen no matter where she was born, and not many can understand what it means
    But she isn't automatically a Bangladeshi citizen if she is born outside of Bangladesh UNLESS her birth has been registered at the consulate or her parents worked for the Bangladeshi government ( which we do not know ).

  20. #195

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    But her parents were born in Bangladesh, that is why "5" applies she is a descendant of two Bangladesh citizens, I am going to give up now, no good me posting a link that clarifies that she is automatically a Bangladesh citizen no matter where she was born, and not many can understand what it means

    This must have been explained a dozen different ways in the past couple of hours. The rules are fine. She fits the bill - great. She needs to prove it.

    When you got your passport, they didn't just hand it over. Of course you automatically got it as a British citizen but you still needed to provide evidence. This is exactly the same.

  21. #196

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    This is the point though, it doesn't say that. It says she is entitled to it. The birth still has to be registered at the Bangladeshi Consulate/Mission.
    OK so they register it now, but obviously they are not going to do that, but the importunity is there, this is what the government case will be about, and of course as she is married to a Dutchman she can become a Citizen of his country, two opportunities for her not to become stateless, we will see how this plays out, I am sure Jared has had plenty of legal advice of the barristers.

  22. #197

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    OK so they register it now, but obviously they are not going to do that, but the importunity is there, this is what the government case will be about, and of course as she is married to a Dutchman she can become a Citizen of his country, two opportunities for her not to become stateless, we will see how this plays out, I am sure Jared has had plenty of legal advice of the barristers.
    I don't think she's entitled to Dutch citizenship. I think Bangladesh is her only option, and as you say, if she hasn't got this already she's unlikely to apply for it in a hurry.

  23. #198

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    You have either: lived in the Netherlands for an uninterrupted period of five years with a valid residence permit; been married to a Dutch national or lived with a Dutch national for three continuous years (including abroad);

  24. #199

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    OK so they register it now, but obviously they are not going to do that, but the importunity is there, this is what the government case will be about, and of course as she is married to a Dutchman she can become a Citizen of his country, two opportunities for her not to become stateless, we will see how this plays out, I am sure Jared has had plenty of legal advice of the barristers.
    Can you explain why the Dutch or Bangladesh would want to give her a citizenship when they don't have to?

  25. #200

    Re: RESULT Shamima Begum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    Can you explain why the Dutch or Bangladesh would want to give her a citizenship when they don't have to?
    Because she would be entitled to it they have to according to their laws, apparently she was married to the Dutch guy as soon as she arrived, that makes it nearly 4 years with him and only three years are required for citizenship, as for the other part Bangladesh gov has said that she would be a citizen if one or two of her parents were Bangladesh citizens when she was born, it does not say a time limit when they should notify them of her birth!

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