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Thread: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

  1. #76

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie View Post
    Got it thanks. It certainly backs up what you have been saying. No way should the pilot have been flying this trip.
    Now, I am sure that if I can show you such conclusive proof, it is almost certain that the higher authorities will have seen that proof (& more) in their investigations.

    Not bad eh for someone who has been accused of being a 12yr old who has swallowed a dictionary & an aviation journal or a replicant of Wales-Bales or a Web content poacher.

  2. #77
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    Now, I am sure that if I can show you such conclusive proof, it is almost certain that the higher authorities will have seen that proof (& more) in their investigations.

    Not bad eh for someone who has been accused of being a 12yr old who has swallowed a dictionary & an aviation journal or a replicant of Wales-Bales or a Web content poacher.
    No "fly's" on you, mate

  3. #78

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Your boss is surprisingly chilled with you spending so much time chatting on here, flyer.
    My boss is surprisingly chilled with me spending so much time chatting on here because I am in the office or in the air morning,noon & night.
    As long as I put in my 1,920 hours per annum either in the office or the air he seems to be very chilled about what I do with the other 6,840hrs of the year. Based on the fact that over the last 12 months I have given my boss 3,120hrs he cuts me some 'slack'

  4. #79

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    Now, I am sure that if I can show you such conclusive proof, it is almost certain that the higher authorities will have seen that proof (& more) in their investigations.

    Not bad eh for someone who has been accused of being a 12yr old who has swallowed a dictionary & an aviation journal or a replicant of Wales-Bales or a Web content poacher.
    Consider it a compliment

    PS where is my DM? (assuming you are not me!)

  5. #80

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    descending at 7,000ft per minute is a reference to vertical speed.
    Most GA Aircraft have a VSI gauge that ranges +2000fpm-2000fpm so 7000fpm is not a controlled climb or descent
    Attachment 2919
    Some high performance aircraft ( i.e Aerobatic or hot rod aircraft ) have a VSI gauge that ranges +4000fpm -4000fpm
    Attachment 2920
    Some high performance turbo props & jets have a VSI gauge that ranges +6000fpm -6000fpm ( which is a very steep climb or descent)
    Attachment 2921

    So a 7000 ft per minute descent is a nigh near vertical dive in a Piper PA46 Malibu
    7000ft per minute is the same as 80mph in a horizontal distance, but the Malibu would have been doing 180mph in level flight & the report states 7000fpm downward to be in a dive @ 180mph with airspeed increasing on a descent path of 7000ft downward trajectory is a definite vertical dive.
    Thanks for the clarification.

  6. #81

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    My boss is surprisingly chilled with me spending so much time chatting on here because I am in the office or in the air morning,noon & night.
    As long as I put in my 1,920 hours per annum either in the office or the air he seems to be very chilled about what I do with the other 6,840hrs of the year. Based on the fact that over the last 12 months I have given my boss 3,120hrs he cuts me some 'slack'
    I have kids. I'm not falling for that old line. Put your boss on so we hear it directly from him.

  7. #82

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    I am guessing that the reference ( That C##t killed your Star player by his 'Wheeling,Dealing ways !! ). is where you read that as me apparently accusing of McKay being a murderer. So are you really saying that you don't think he has 'blood on his hands?'
    The context of that statement is: Willie McKay organised the Sala flight, Willie McKay paid for the flight to be organised, Willie McKay isn't the type of guy to not know the finer details of anything he has a finger in, if Willie McKay honestly did leave all the finer details to Dave Henderson & Dave Henderson didn't tell Willie McKay that he was going to use a colourblind Daytime only rated PPL I would be very surprised that Willie McKay was so slapdash to allow someone to be in control of a McKay deal.

    I think it would be fair to say that Willie McKay is a manipulative controlfreak, so him not knowing what was happening is a very unlikely scenario.

    I might be 'slighting' Willie McKay in my distrust of the man, but his past track record is a fair marker of his ability to 'slip & slide' in most things.
    You’re an expert in aviation apparently. That doesn’t necessarily translate to being an expert on football agents (you claim to not be a football fan so that makes it even less likely perhaps)

    The other thing you don’t seem to be an expert on is what might be deemed libellous that you commit to print.

    My counsel - stick to facts

  8. #83

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie View Post
    The identity of the aircraft’s owner has no bearing on the crash, it’s not relevant. For example, if I loaned my car to you and someone smashed into you on the M4, the fact that I own the car is irrelevant to the cause of the crash.

    The report states the maintenance history of the aircraft, which is relevant and appears to be within the legal requirements.

    You need to understand that in a report of this nature, there is no room for emotion, sentiment or speculation, just facts that are provable with evidence.

    No crime has been reported (that I’m aware of anyway), so what is it you think the police are investigating ? Just because we don’t know who owns the aircraft doesn’t mean anything illegal has taken place. Shell companies, for example, exist to mask things like this. Whilst they appear shady they are legal.

    If the AAIB discovers evidence of a crime I’m sure it will be passed on to the police and/or other relevant authorities. Until then, there is no crime so nothing to investigate.
    The crash certainly has relevance to the owner[s] though. There is £500k worth of plane at the bottom of the ocean and sooner or later someone will put an insurance claim in. If the pilot wasn't qualified to fly the plane in those circumstances then yet another can of worms is opened. If I allow someone without a licence to drive my car and they write it off, I am not insured...

  9. #84

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie View Post
    Got it thanks. It certainly backs up what you have been saying. No way should the pilot have been flying this trip.
    So when will we finally hear from the bloke who apparently sent him to his death on this flight? Henderson? Still, not a word.
    Despite what a few jacks are saying on their forum, pathetic point scoring, I think our club has handled this whole tradegy really well. We are obviously being advises by the clubs lawyers on exactly what to do. Someone has to be accountable for this terrible event.

  10. #85

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    You’re an expert in aviation apparently. That doesn’t necessarily translate to being an expert on football agents (you claim to not be a football fan so that makes it even less likely perhaps)

    The other thing you don’t seem to be an expert on is what might be deemed libellous that you commit to print.

    My counsel - stick to facts
    I am not sure I want to be known as an Aviation expert ( that encompasses those TV hungry people who want to be on every TV News story & talk utter bollocks whilst claiming to be an Aviation expert ).

    What I am quite happy to be known as is an Aviation consultant I gather knowledge & store it for future reference, I give advice & I receive advice so I am not the 'Jack of all trades, but the Master of one'

    I got to the point where I felt that it was time to 'Piss or get off the pot'
    Duggie seemed to be the most sensible person who I felt I could give a snippet that would back up all I have stated on here as being 100% bona-fide.
    " I pissed in the pot " & I think Duggie will agree that what I said was there really was? The snippets I gave him answered all the questionability about whether the pilot should have been flying at night, whether the pilot should have been flying a fare paid passenger & whether the pilot had the ratings to be flying in those conditions.

    I don't claim to being an expert on football agents, I wouldn't really want to have 'that string to my bow'
    I do know that my boss has seen the work of football agents & other unscrupulous bastards within the football industry as they were the very reason he didn't want to be in that industry.

    From what I am told there is a glut of deception & corruption within the bigger clubs, my boss opined it was bad in the 80's & 90's but must be diabolical now?
    In his days of accompanying his father to home games he was shocked that his father's parking space in the stadium was given to someone as much an undesirable as Willie McKay.

    There was also an 'unwritten rule' that he could park his own car on the road outside the stadium on matchdays, this 'unwritten rule' was retracted/denied when a Ticket Tout decided that he needed his car on the road outside the stadium so he had a 'safehouse to keep his spiv tickets' For clarity, his father would be at the Stadium from the morning of a matchday, he & his mates would arrive about 90mins before kick off so there were usually 2 vehicles parked at the stadium or thereabouts ( both cars would be known as they had personalised Club numberplates)

  11. #86

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    I am not sure I want to be known as an Aviation expert ( that encompasses those TV hungry people who want to be on every TV News story & talk utter bollocks whilst claiming to be an Aviation expert ).

    What I am quite happy to be known as is an Aviation consultant I gather knowledge & store it for future reference, I give advice & I receive advice so I am not the 'Jack of all trades, but the Master of one'

    I got to the point where I felt that it was time to 'Piss or get off the pot'
    Duggie seemed to be the most sensible person who I felt I could give a snippet that would back up all I have stated on here as being 100% bona-fide.
    " I pissed in the pot " & I think Duggie will agree that what I said was there really was? The snippets I gave him answered all the questionability about whether the pilot should have been flying at night, whether the pilot should have been flying a fare paid passenger & whether the pilot had the ratings to be flying in those conditions.

    I don't claim to being an expert on football agents, I wouldn't really want to have 'that string to my bow'
    I do know that my boss has seen the work of football agents & other unscrupulous bastards within the football industry as they were the very reason he didn't want to be in that industry.

    From what I am told there is a glut of deception & corruption within the bigger clubs, my boss opined it was bad in the 80's & 90's but must be diabolical now?
    In his days of accompanying his father to home games he was shocked that his father's parking space in the stadium was given to someone as much an undesirable as Willie McKay.

    There was also an 'unwritten rule' that he could park his own car on the road outside the stadium on matchdays, this 'unwritten rule' was retracted/denied when a Ticket Tout decided that he needed his car on the road outside the stadium so he had a 'safehouse to keep his spiv tickets' For clarity, his father would be at the Stadium from the morning of a matchday, he & his mates would arrive about 90mins before kick off so there were usually 2 vehicles parked at the stadium or thereabouts ( both cars would be known as they had personalised Club numberplates)
    What the hell are you on about?🤪. That is one crazy mixed up post. Have you read what you’ve written about McKay?

    As for Duggie - he/she could be you for all I know. You don’t seem to care about who you accuse of crimes so why not post everything you apparently PM’d on here for all to see. As for your boss... he sounds a complete tosser.

  12. #87

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    So when will we finally hear from the bloke who apparently sent him to his death on this flight? Henderson? Still, not a word.
    Despite what a few jacks are saying on their forum, pathetic point scoring, I think our club has handled this whole tradegy really well. We are obviously being advises by the clubs lawyers on exactly what to do. Someone has to be accountable for this terrible event.
    This is only my personal opinion ( caveat to cover me not falling foul of 'StraightouttaCanton's counsel ),
    I would imagine Dave Henderson is lying low.
    I would imagine that Dave Henderson has been told to lie low.
    I would imagine that if Dave Henderson doesn't lie low, he will be forced to.

    I am sure that CCFC are acting under legal advice by highly paid lawyers etc, I would imagine that these lawyers are giving the newspapers some shit over the crap they print in the hope of selling more papers ( Today's newspaper is tomorrow's Chip wrapper ), however I am sure they will be looking closely at the legalities of the actual flight & other important aspects of the Sala transfer.

    One thing for sure is Someone has to be accountable for this terrible event. Where the buck stops is anyone's guess.

    The known facts about the licence of the pilot not allowing him to conduct a flight at night & the known fact that it was only a PPL aren't going to bode well & will probably nullify the aircraft insurance so the beneficial aircraft owner will be looking for 'a pound of flesh' for the aircraft value which is probably £250k.

    I can foresee the fallout that this tragedy will have on the Ibbotson family & whilst Dave Ibbotson broke the law I feel he was coerced into it by the organisers, so I really hope they are jointly held accountable for this tragedy.
    I think the Ibbotson family have suffered enough now, that is not a 'U Turn' from me, it is just a statement of compassion.

  13. #88

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    The crash certainly has relevance to the owner[s] though. There is £500k worth of plane at the bottom of the ocean and sooner or later someone will put an insurance claim in. If the pilot wasn't qualified to fly the plane in those circumstances then yet another can of worms is opened. If I allow someone without a licence to drive my car and they write it off, I am not insured...
    Whilst you are right in what you say, from the perspective of the AAIB, the fact that Mr. Bloggs owned the plane didn’t contribute to the crash. This is all they will focus on. Once all the facts (that can be established) are known, I’m sure that authorities will take action where they deem appropriate.

    Ibbotson was not qualified to fly at night according to the endorsement on his licence, therefore he should not have been flying that plane. I think everyone agrees on this.

    I read in a news report (so not yet verified as far as I’m concerned) that another pilot was due to fly the plane, possibly with Ibbotson alongside him, but he dropped out at the last minute. Maybe Ibbotson felt put under pressure to fly the plane by himself, I’m just speculating there of course, but it’s a scenario I can imaging happening.

  14. #89

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    ?

    As for Duggie - he/she could be you for all I know. You don’t seem to care about who you accuse of crimes so why not post everything you apparently PM’d on here for all to see. As for your boss... he sounds a complete tosser.
    I can confirm that I am a 40-something y/o man who is not Flyer46. I have worked within the aviation industry for a number of years and also served in the RAF (long time ago) hence my views on how the AAIB present their reports (basically I have read quite a few reports over the years and seen their reports on accidents I had knowledge of). I am, however, not an expert in any of these things, I just express my views on how I see things.

  15. #90

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    What the hell are you on about?��. That is one crazy mixed up post. Have you read what you’ve written about McKay?

    As for Duggie - he/she could be you for all I know. You don’t seem to care about who you accuse of crimes so why not post everything you apparently PM’d on here for all to see. As for your boss... he sounds a complete tosser.
    I would assume any educated person to be intelligent enough to realise that if I wrote something I had read it also

    Now, this is getting to be a bit daft where anyone who doesn't seem to be normal is 'called out'...... So now I am Wales-Bales, Duggie, Baker, Uncle Tom Cobley, a 12yr old schoolkid & who I actually am

    Maybe I will be accused of being Willie McKay next or could I actually be Dave Henderson just keeping tabs on all of you lot?

    Duggie will be impressed that I have morphed into him now
    I pm'd a few things to Duggie because he seems to be a 'wise old owl' & to be honest I was getting just a bit tired of being accused of speculating when I had hard facts to back up my statements so he was the recipient to get given privy information just so he could state I wasn't 'cuckoo'

    Now, you are 'calling out' my boss as a complete tosser I have stated that he has no real interest in football, but even with that statement I am sure his family has put more into football than you have & most likely he has still put more into football than you ever could & he hates the game.

    I will ask him if He will throw down a gauntlet to you where you can pick a Stadium & the pair of you can see who gets the better treatment by the Stadium staff? Chances are he will get recognised instantly & the staff will ask you " Who the f#ck are you "
    or
    Shall we make it more interesting where both of you can request a meet up with Warnock & see who gets the meet & who gets told to " F#ck off "

    My boss's identity will remain hidden until you decide on what to do now the glove is in the dust

    If McKay gets his 'open meeting' with the CCFC hierachy where the pap's get to cover the 'showdown' you can be sure my boss will be there to watch the hoedown.

  16. #91

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    The crash certainly has relevance to the owner[s] though. There is £500k worth of plane at the bottom of the ocean and sooner or later someone will put an insurance claim in. If the pilot wasn't qualified to fly the plane in those circumstances then yet another can of worms is opened. If I allow someone without a licence to drive my car and they write it off, I am not insured...
    That Malibu when in good condition was possibly worth about £250k... my opinion having seen the actual aircraft a few months before the accident would have been the owners would have struggled to get £175k for it.
    It was a 'tired looking aircraft'

  17. #92

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    I would assume any educated person to be intelligent enough to realise that if I wrote something I had read it also

    Now, this is getting to be a bit daft where anyone who doesn't seem to be normal is 'called out'...... So now I am Wales-Bales, Duggie, Baker, Uncle Tom Cobley, a 12yr old schoolkid & who I actually am

    Maybe I will be accused of being Willie McKay next or could I actually be Dave Henderson just keeping tabs on all of you lot?

    Duggie will be impressed that I have morphed into him now
    I pm'd a few things to Duggie because he seems to be a 'wise old owl' & to be honest I was getting just a bit tired of being accused of speculating when I had hard facts to back up my statements so he was the recipient to get given privy information just so he could state I wasn't 'cuckoo'

    Now, you are 'calling out' my boss as a complete tosser I have stated that he has no real interest in football, but even with that statement I am sure his family has put more into football than you have & most likely he has still put more into football than you ever could & he hates the game.

    I will ask him if He will throw down a gauntlet to you where you can pick a Stadium & the pair of you can see who gets the better treatment by the Stadium staff? Chances are he will get recognised instantly & the staff will ask you " Who the f#ck are you "
    or
    Shall we make it more interesting where both of you can request a meet up with Warnock & see who gets the meet & who gets told to " F#ck off "

    My boss's identity will remain hidden until you decide on what to do now the glove is in the dust

    If McKay gets his 'open meeting' with the CCFC hierachy where the pap's get to cover the 'showdown' you can be sure my boss will be there to watch the hoedown.
    LOL

  18. #93

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    My boss is surprisingly chilled with me spending so much time chatting on here because I am in the office or in the air morning,noon & night.
    As long as I put in my 1,920 hours per annum either in the office or the air he seems to be very chilled about what I do with the other 6,840hrs of the year. Based on the fact that over the last 12 months I have given my boss 3,120hrs he cuts me some 'slack'
    3120 hrs ? How much “in the air” ? That’s a very interesting Flight time limitation scheme you work to.....................

  19. #94

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    3120 hrs ? How much “in the air” ? That’s a very interesting Flight time limitation scheme you work to.....................
    Flyer will be pleased he’s got another pilot to chat to.

  20. #95

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    The PA46 Malibu range nearly all have FIKI ( Flight Into Known Icing ) capabilities. I believe N264DB had de-icing boots on the leading edges of the wings & leading edge of tailplane & also the leading edges of the elevator ( highlighted in yellow boxes )
    Attachment 2922
    These are hydraulically inflated to break off Ice build on these surfaces ( if they have a pin hole or leak, they fail to work )

    It is not known (by me) if they were serviceable on N264DB or whether the pilot understood the procedure to use them correctly

    The engine in the PA46 Malibu is a fuel injected engine so carb icing isn't an issue.

    My assumptions on the erratic decrease, increase, decrease in altitude are one of two scenarios:
    (1) The pitot head froze up & instruments failed to function correctly, thereby the pilot chasing the needles was fighting to keep what he thought was level flight
    (2) He got Spatially disorientated & just simply lost control & was pulling & pushing at the controls trying to regain level flight.
    Hydraulically inflated de icing boots ?

    If as you are claiming that you are a PA46 pilot you may want to brush up on your systems knowledge and avoid Flying in icing conditions for the time being

  21. #96
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    Hydraulically operated de icing boots ?

    If as you are claiming that you are a PA46 pilot you may want to brush up on your systems knowledge and avoid Flying in icing conditions for the time being

  22. #97

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    3120 hrs ? How much “in the air” ? That’s a very interesting Flight time limitation scheme you work to.....................
    RTFM What part of "As long as I put in my 1,920 hours per annum either in the office or the air " didn't you understand?

    40hrs per week = 1920hrs over 48weeks
    The 40hr week can be made up of office hours or flying hours or sitting on my rear waiting for whatever

  23. #98

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Bluebird View Post
    Hydraulically inflated de icing boots ?

    If as you are claiming that you are a PA46 pilot you may want to brush up on your systems knowledge and avoid Flying in icing conditions for the time being
    I don't need to brush up on my systems knowledge and avoid Flying in icing conditions for the time being, I am fully aware that I should have said pneumatic, when doing quite a few things at the same time I am not infallible & posting on here is in spare moments when I am not exactly focusing on this board but a 'calling out' appears & I answer 'half cocked' because there are so many naysayers on this messageboard.

    I know the PA46 Systems well, if the deceased pilot knew them he would probably still be alive today..... I do know that the deceased pilot hadn't even looked at the POH so I guess that is testament to RTFM being a good way to stay alive.

  24. #99

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Flyer will be pleased he’s got another pilot to chat to.
    I would rather be exchanging messages with Dave Ibbotson than with SHB ( who seems to be ' late to the party ' on anything )

  25. #100

    Re: AAIB INTERIM REPORT

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer46 View Post
    RTFM What part of "As long as I put in my 1,920 hours per annum either in the office or the air " didn't you understand?

    40hrs per week = 1920hrs over 48weeks
    The 40hr week can be made up of office hours or flying hours or sitting on my rear waiting for whatever
    And i asked the question what FTL scheme if any do,you operate to ?.

    Also what register is the PA46 you allege to operate on ? and under what category ?
    Private or Public transport ?
    Curious also to know what licence you hold ?

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