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Thread: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

  1. #1

    Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    https://clwbpeldroed.org/2019/02/25/...ciation-wales/

    Their heart says stay in England league but head says move to wales for financial reasons. Never thought id type that!

    Think thats just Merthyr and wrexham left now- as well as cardiff and swansea obviously.

    I think Merthyr will be next, i read recently TNS made more money in their handful of summer games in Europe last summer than Newport did in their fa cup run this year. Crazy.

  2. #2

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    They’d better get their finances properly sorted out if they want to play in the Welsh Premier League, Bangor have gone from finishing second and being by a long way the best supported club to playing home games in Conwy and Llandudno after being booted out for financial reasons, they seem to be ruthless about any financial problem,Rhyl and Porthmadog both got punished and Caernarfon Town were denied promotion because they were late with the paper work. I’m a big fan of the Welsh Prem, the standard is a lot higher than many people presume, but I do worry about those in charge.

  3. #3

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    I hope Merthyr stay in the English pyramid

  4. #4

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks View Post
    I hope Merthyr stay in the English pyramid
    So do I.

  5. #5

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks View Post
    I hope Merthyr stay in the English pyramid
    I hope they do too (in part) . But realistically speaking, is a town the size of Merthyr ever going to reach any higher than the Conference......League Two tops ? Probably not. At least they haven't at any point in their history. I don't even know if it'd be good for a club like Merthyr to overextend themselves in an attempt to reach any higher.

    If that is the case, then maybe winning the Welsh Prem and getting games in Europe every other season, getting a regular income etc, would be the perfect outcome for that club at the present time. If there is a glass ceiling in the English pyramid, why not play at a similar standard, but actually have the chance of aspiring to some sort of glory/trophies.

  6. #6

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Not sure where they would be allowed to start, wouldn’t be fair to parachute them into the Welsh Prem or WL/HGA

  7. #7

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    I see no point in a Welsh club below the Conference playing in the English pyramid bearing in mind the potential benefits of playing in the Welsh Prem

    Is Ramsbottom United away really that much more appealing than Conwy or Llandudno?

  8. #8

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks View Post
    I hope Merthyr stay in the English pyramid
    Why?

  9. #9

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system


  10. #10

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    I see no point in a Welsh club below the Conference playing in the English pyramid bearing in mind the potential benefits of playing in the Welsh Prem

    Is Ramsbottom United away really that much more appealing than Conwy or Llandudno?
    Financially I would have thought being in the Welsh Premier would make more money than however many divisions Merthyr are away from the National League. TV rights, more exposure, chance of Europe. I would have thought that, unless Merthyr really harbour ambitions of being contenders for league football, as they were in the 80s, and fund it, their profile and bank balance would be better off being in the Welsh system.

    The only issue would be where to put them? Straight into the Welsh Premier would be unfair on those battling to win promotion. Bottom of the ladder would seriously harm the club but fairer on all the other clubs.

  11. #11

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    I hope they do too (in part) . But realistically speaking, is a town the size of Merthyr ever going to reach any higher than the Conference......League Two tops ? Probably not. At least they haven't at any point in their history. I don't even know if it'd be good for a club like Merthyr to overextend themselves in an attempt to reach any higher.

    If that is the case, then maybe winning the Welsh Prem and getting games in Europe every other season, getting a regular income etc, would be the perfect outcome for that club at the present time. If there is a glass ceiling in the English pyramid, why not play at a similar standard, but actually have the chance of aspiring to some sort of glory/trophies.
    I take your ‘realistically’ point on size of town but there are many similar sized towns in the English pyramid system. Burnley is a similar size for example

  12. #12

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    I take your ‘realistically’ point on size of town but there are many similar sized towns in the English pyramid system. Burnley is a similar size for example
    http://lovemytown.co.uk/populations/townstable1.asp

    Not according to the 2011 census data.

    Although Newport should definitely be doing better.

  13. #13

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    https://twitter.com/rhyswynne/status...17629369049088

    Interesting thread on this from a Colwyn Bay shareholder.

  14. #14

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    http://lovemytown.co.uk/populations/townstable1.asp

    Not according to the 2011 census data.

    Although Newport should definitely be doing better.
    I think you missed my point. That data backs it up. Ok Burnley is bigger than Merthyr by less than 40,000 people but Burnley is only half the size of Slough.

    If you follow that logic Burnley should be a mid table 5th tier team

  15. #15

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    I think you missed my point. That data backs it up. Ok Burnley is bigger than Merthyr by less than 40,000 people but Burnley is only half the size of Slough.

    If you follow that logic Burnley should be a mid table 5th tier team
    Burnley are doing well for their size, but to go back to the original point, there aren't many towns a similar size to Merthyr that are successful in the league, look at the names around them on that list.

  16. #16

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Burnley are doing well for their size, but to go back to the original point, there aren't many towns a similar size to Merthyr that are successful in the league, look at the names around them on that list.
    Other than Burnley that is

  17. #17

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Burnley are not around Merthyr on that list, it is almost twice the size or Merthyr

  18. #18

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Burnley are not around Merthyr on that list, it is almost twice the size or Merthyr
    At the risk of sounding as pedantic as you - I really don’t think that in terms of being able to support a Premier League football team a difference of 37,000 people in census terms would be significantly significant. Burnley’s extra ‘total’ population over Merthyr is not even enough to fill some league 1 teams stadia.

  19. #19

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    At the risk of sounding as pedantic as you - I really don’t think that in terms of being able to support a Premier League football team a difference of 37,000 people in census terms would be significantly significant. Burnley’s extra ‘total’ population over Merthyr is not even enough to fill some league 1 teams stadia.
    I see what you're saying but there has to be a critical mass to be able to support a successful team and there are no other towns as far as I can see with a population in the 40k region with a league club, let alone premier league.
    Burnley have a population double that of Merthyr and are an outlier in terms of size to be a premier league club, so even if merthyr suddenly doubled their population they would still also need to be a massive outlier in order to be that successful.

  20. #20

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I see what you're saying but there has to be a critical mass to be able to support a successful team and there are no other towns as far as I can see with a population in the 40k region with a league club, let alone premier league.
    Burnley have a population double that of Merthyr and are an outlier in terms of size to be a premier league club, so even if merthyr suddenly doubled their population they would still also need to be a massive outlier in order to be that successful.
    Glad you understood it because when I read my post again I wondered what the hell I was on about with my ‘significantly significant’ comment.... DOH! Meant statistically, but guess you realized that.

    I’ll end it here before I start diving into the rabbit hole of Merthyr’s catchment area

  21. #21

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    I hope they do too (in part) . But realistically speaking, is a town the size of Merthyr ever going to reach any higher than the Conference......League Two tops ? Probably not. At least they haven't at any point in their history. I don't even know if it'd be good for a club like Merthyr to overextend themselves in an attempt to reach any higher.

    If that is the case, then maybe winning the Welsh Prem and getting games in Europe every other season, getting a regular income etc, would be the perfect outcome for that club at the present time. If there is a glass ceiling in the English pyramid, why not play at a similar standard, but actually have the chance of aspiring to some sort of glory/trophies.
    ..a bit of research before posting would help !!

  22. #22

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    A big step for them but hopefully a happy one; I've also read the stat about TNS making more from their Champions League run than County did this year in the FA Cup, and the local derbies on offer must be more appealing than trips to otherwise unheard of towns and villages in England.

    The standards of the league is improving year on year and demands for improved facilities (and grants to help achieve that) means its become more appealing to visit as well.

  23. #23

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    ..a bit of research before posting would help !!
    When have they been above the Fourth Division ?

    “Highest league position: 4th in Football Conference, 1991–92”

  24. #24

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    When have they been above the Fourth Division ?

    “Highest league position: 4th in Football Conference, 1991–92”
    1920's 3rd South for about 7/8 seasons. Also Aberdare Athletic for about 5 seasons.. [though arguably I suppose the bottom half of 3rd south could be compared with the 4th division.] Both Merthyr and Aberdare achieved final league placings above half way..

  25. #25

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Financially I would have thought being in the Welsh Premier would make more money than however many divisions Merthyr are away from the National League. TV rights, more exposure, chance of Europe. I would have thought that, unless Merthyr really harbour ambitions of being contenders for league football, as they were in the 80s, and fund it, their profile and bank balance would be better off being in the Welsh system.

    The only issue would be where to put them? Straight into the Welsh Premier would be unfair on those battling to win promotion. Bottom of the ladder would seriously harm the club but fairer on all the other clubs.
    Imagine if Newport had followed your advice. Crowds of 300, no lucrative tie against Man City but, hey, Llandudno away on S4C. FFS.

  26. #26

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    They find out on 29 march whether they will be entered in tier 2 or 3.

    Personally for the bigger picture i hope its tier 2. Thats a tough league in itself and colwyn bay will struggle in their current form.

    Re merthyr- there are strong arguments both ways but i think its more than likely they will end up in wales. They will certainly be having a close look at how colwyn bay get on.

    Merthyr are a tidy club and could seek to get champions league football every season.

  27. #27

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    1920's 3rd South for about 7/8 seasons. Also Aberdare Athletic for about 5 seasons.. [though arguably I suppose the bottom half of 3rd south could be compared with the 4th division.] Both Merthyr and Aberdare achieved final league placings above half way..
    Well done - I've read their history and you beat me to this. It's incredible to think of Merthyr - and Aberdare! - in the Football League playing Bristol City, Reading etc. on an equal footing for the best part of a decade.

  28. #28

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by JennyWren View Post
    Imagine if Newport had followed your advice. Crowds of 300, no lucrative tie against Man City but, hey, Llandudno away on S4C. FFS.
    absolutely bang on

  29. #29

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Tier 2 in Wales is being restructured this summer, so I can see them being snuck in as part of that.

  30. #30

    Re: Colwyn bay meet FAW in bid to join welsh pyramid system

    Quote Originally Posted by Duggie View Post
    Tier 2 in Wales is being restructured this summer, so I can see them being snuck in as part of that.
    Agree. They will have a lot of work to do on and especially off the pitch if they want to join the premier.

    Talking of big towns- penybont will be in the welsh premier next season- they have a tidy set up there, be good to see them grow.

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