Reply With QuoteHaving read the nearly 700 posts on Pilots Rumour Network PpRune
If the CAA have not banned flights of this flawed plane by 6pm tonight I will be amazed.
TUI passengers are apparently in revolt and I do not blame them.
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
I won't believe anything till flyer46 replies.
Having read the nearly 700 posts on Pilots Rumour Network PpRune
If the CAA have not banned flights of this flawed plane by 6pm tonight I will be amazed.
TUI passengers are apparently in revolt and I do not blame them.
As airlines around the World ground these planes TUI who fly holiday making families continue as if nothing has happened. This is shocking. I was about to book a holiday with them but won't do so until these planes are withdrawn from service.
we are supposed to believe that two trained teams of pilots have messed up.Originally Posted by Vindec
it's beyond belief.
clearly both planes became unflyable.
this is a scandal.
Finally and far too late the CAA act.
Has one crashed in the UK?
The CAA have acted in accordance with public opinion and the undeniable fact these planes have software issues that need to be resolved. Of course none have crashed in the UK as there are so few operating over UK skies. But you shouldn't wait for planes to crash before you act although it seems in this case that is exactly what has happened.
Your friend is quite right.
I’m not rated on the 737 but have a very good friend who instructs on it and his airline is due it’s first Max this year.
His honest appraisal of both incidents is a lack of system knowledge due inadequate differences training from the 737NG.
The differences training is minimal as Boeing have sold this to the airlines as a major selling point.
By all accounts the MCAS system might be faulty but it is very easy to disable it with manual trim input.
Interestingly the day before the Lion Air crash in Indonesia a very experienced ex pat captain encountered the MCAS fault on the same aircraft but had the knowledge to disable it and went about his day as normal , writing up the fault in the tech log at the end of day.
He now believes that the differences course will now change and include actual simulator time , rather than a 2 hr e-learning course Which is the current requirement.
SkyHighBluebird
dont doubt what you say BUT
it was not easy enough to disable it for those two crews.
More intetestingly are we really saying that one AoA sensor faulty allows a modern computerised plane to crash itself in spite of terrain collision warnings evem though the pilots wete tryimg to fly it.
the worst plane design ever i suggest.
Crap computerised system in my opinion and terrifying !
give me a pilot and co pilot ..... over any computer when something goes wrong please
This is a scandal and Boeing might be in more trouble than they or we realise.
360 dead massive speed of impact. The plane is garbage.
Some of my last post is garbage too.
the 737 is not really a computerised plane.
it is old school.
Old school with an MCAS safety feature that when autopilot is disengaged can with one faulty Angle of Attack AoA sensor
countermand the pilots ... put the plane in a nose dive and cause it to crash at massive speed,
i personally would prefer a stall.
The crew could have dealt with that.
it is as doomed as the comet
It should have been easy enough to disable the MCAS system but due to inadequate training (not the crews fault I should add),they were unable too.
Also with regards to the AoA sensor note that the MCAS system only works when the autopilot is off, so engaging the autopilot with the push of a button or a flick of the electric trimmer on the control column would have overridden the MCAS.
Whilst the 737 dates back to 1966 , the MAX version is very much state of the art flightdeck and is very computerised ,it has more In common with the Dreamliner (another aircraft which had teething problems) than it does with earlier generations of the aircraft.
With over 5000 on order I think it is for from doomed imho.
Great information Thank you.
Well that's that then.
At least now we can all wait until this clusterf@ck is sorted out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47562727
RIP
Teething problems???? Some fecking teething problems, about 350 fatal ones.
You have to engage the autotpilot system to override the MCAS system when flying in manual mode?
Yes that’s correct.
So if you you were flying on autopilot and needed to switch to manual control in an emergency, the only way to override MCAS would be to go back into autopilot mode?
Note the requirements for the engagement of MCAS at the top left of,the picture.
The autopilot has to be off.
84247824-2A8C-4090-9D21-127CF8FC6B58.jpg
The easiest way to disarm it is to “blip” the electric trimmer on the control column (see bottom right) or engage/re engage the autopilot.
In my example, I was assuming that the MCAS had kicked in after the pilot had switched to manual mode. So blipping the electric trimmer is a separate process to engaging the auto-pilot? I don't know much about flying passenger planes, I'm just trying to understand how the software works.
This statement regarding the Air Lion crash report would seem to contradict what you said.
"Documents reveal that pilots flying last November reported engaging autopilot only for the aircraft's nose to pitch lower, prompting the warning system to exclaim: "Don't sink! Don't sink!"
That was my point. The post I repleid to said they'd acted far too late. Which clearly they hadn't.
That's Interesting however id be curious as to the source of the documents mentioned.
Looking at the official KNKT Preliminary Aircraft accident invesitigation report
https://reports.aviation-safety.net/...RELIMINARY.pdf
If you look at page 11 with regards to the CVR transcript you'll note that the SIC (co-pilot) confirms to ATC that the aircraft is being flown manually due to a flight control problem, that was 2 mins and 17 seconds before impact.
Yes it’s a separate process.
If the pilot makes a manual trim command the MCAS will not re-activate until there have been 5 continuous seconds without pilot trim command.
What I would say it’s one thing being able to discuss the details of a complex system in a warm room with a cup of tea.
However I can only begin to imagine the confusion and startle factor with dealing with a situation like this, throw in the likelihood of the activation of stalll warning devices like the stick shaker and various other warnings , and the stress levels would be through the roof.
I think it’s the right thing personally to ground the aircraft pending further investigation and a reappraisal of the training required to operate it.
From a systems design point of view, if you were coming out of autopilot due to a technical problem, why would you have to go from manual control back into autopilot before you could kill the MCAS. That's confusing for me. Why not just have a big red button to disable it? But there must be a reason why they did it that way.
if the 2nd crash hadn't have happened so soon after the first, and with the amount of money at stake, would Boeing, FAA just have trashed the reputations of the Ethiopian Airways pilots and filtered in software updates during routine maintenance!!!.
Seems far fetched but the same two organisations managed to get the certification in place for an unsafe plane to take to the skies.
Posting Permissions