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Thread: Todays plane tragedy

  1. #1

    Todays plane tragedy

    The Boeing 737 Max 8 has a known software fault.
    in Laymans terms and it is terrifying .... this is the fault.

    A concerned pilot takes manual control of his
    craft turning off the autopilot.
    the software doesn't like this and flies the plane into the ground.

    sounds unbelievable but it's happened twice now.

    maybe give the Boeing Max 8 a wide berth until these two recent crashes are explained.

    No way is this pilot error.

  2. #2

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Do you ask what make the plane is as you get on? I wouldn’t fly on one of them after this and the one in Indonesia mind

  3. #3

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Do you ask what make the plane is as you get on? I wouldn’t fly on one of them after this and the one in Indonesia mind
    Your point is valid but I think people will want to know now.
    I think Ryanair have one or more flying in their fleet. This may be wrong but tomorrows papers will let us know for sure!
    This has happened twice to new aircraft.
    Remember this. These planes basically fly themselves. Or rather they are supposed to.
    If the information fed to the computer is wrong the computer will follow programmed adjustments based on the incorrect information.Pilot reaction is ... this is wrong I am taking over and flying it myself.
    The autopilot then it appears says oh no you can't do that.
    There is going to be a pilot led response to this IMHO.

  4. #4

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    Your point is valid but I think people will want to know now.
    I think Ryanair have one or more flying in their fleet. This may be wrong but tomorrows papers will let us know for sure!
    This has happened twice to new aircraft.
    Remember this. These planes basically fly themselves. Or rather they are supposed to.
    If the information fed to the computer is wrong the computer will follow programmed adjustments based on the incorrect information.Pilot reaction is ... this is wrong I am taking over and flying it myself.
    The autopilot then it appears says oh no you can't do that.
    There is going to be a pilot led response to this IMHO.
    Scary to think the pilots cannot get control of the plane over the computer

  5. #5

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    There are over 2600 of these planes and I doubt any average punter will have any idea that they are flying on one. Often flight schedules will tell you the plane you are due to travel on is on is a 737 but will not disclose that it is the Max 8 variant. Very worrying!

    Full list of carriers flying the Max 8 is here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_deliveries

  6. #6

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Flew to Munich this evening, I've made maybe 500 flights in the last 25 years and the one this evening was up there with the scariest, 110khm cross winds & the plane bucking all over the place! I sang a certain song in my head!

    I've flown on a Max8 with Qatar & flew to Vancouver on one a few months back with Air Canada. TUI have a few as well.

  7. #7

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    There are over 2600 of these planes and I doubt any average punter will have any idea that they are flying on one. Often flight schedules will tell you the plane you are due to travel on is on is a 737 but will not disclose that it is the Max 8 variant. Very worrying!

    Full list of carriers flying the Max 8 is here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_deliveries
    2600 orders only 350 delivered, it's only been in service 18 months.

  8. #8

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Sounds like teething problems ....

  9. #9

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Des Parrot View Post
    Flew to Munich this evening, I've made maybe 500 flights in the last 25 years and the one this evening was up there with the scariest, 110khm cross winds & the plane bucking all over the place! I sang a certain song in my head!

    I've flown on a Max8 with Qatar & flew to Vancouver on one a few months back with Air Canada. TUI have a few as well.
    Am intrigued by what song you sang. I'll guess: Nearer, My God, to Thee.

    Perhaps Moggis could make it into a competition with the winner receiving a packet of Jammie Dodgers.

  10. #10

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    The MCAS a software anti stall system is overuling the pilot input.
    this is what happened in the Indonesia flight that flew straight into the Java sea.According to the Prelim AAIB report.

    mind boggling these planes are still flying until this is fully resolved.
    the similarities in these tragedies is overwhelming and obvious.

  11. #11

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Shit, if this is all true then it's terrifying.

  12. #12

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    The Boeing 737 Max 8 has a known software fault.
    in Laymans terms and it is terrifying .... this is the fault.

    A concerned pilot takes manual control of his
    craft turning off the autopilot.
    the software doesn't like this and flies the plane into the ground.

    sounds unbelievable but it's happened twice now.

    maybe give the Boeing Max 8 a wide berth until these two recent crashes are explained.

    No way is this pilot error.
    Why wouldn’t they just update the software if it’s just a software issue? Surely it must be more than just software if it’s just the max 8 experiencing issues.

    It sounds like it’s more of a sensor issue and the pilot not understanding the engines and sensor are slightly further forward on the plane.

    There’s no way they’d let it continue to fly if it had the exact issue you’ve described surely?

  13. #13

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Why wouldn’t they just update the software if it’s just a software issue? Surely it must be more than just software if it’s just the max 8 experiencing issues.

    It sounds like it’s more of a sensor issue and the pilot not understanding the engines and sensor are slightly further forward on the plane.

    There’s no way they’d let it continue to fly if it had the exact issue you’ve described surely?
    i simplified my explanation for posting purposes but there is truth in the information.
    anyone can read the report on the Java sea crash late last year.

    today i see many airlines have correctly grounded their planes.
    Older craft will be being demothballed as I type this

  14. #14

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    China have grounded the planes.

  15. #15

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    Sounds like teething problems ....
    Ye. Just with catastrophic consequences.

  16. #16

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Why wouldn’t they just update the software if it’s just a software issue? Surely it must be more than just software if it’s just the max 8 experiencing issues.

    It sounds like it’s more of a sensor issue and the pilot not understanding the engines and sensor are slightly further forward on the plane.

    There’s no way they’d let it continue to fly if it had the exact issue you’ve described surely?
    Douglas deliberately ignored an issue with baggage doors on their DC10s for years. There were several fatal crashes involving them. It was revealed a number of years after the first one that Douglas hadn't implimented the safety instructions from the first investigation because it would have cost too much. Apparently, at that time the licencing authority in the US didn't have the power to force the company to make the changes. It all came to a head after the Turkish Airlines Flight 981 crashed after a stop off at Orley Airport in France in 1974 killing all 583 people on board.

    As of Sept 2015, the DC10 had been involved in 55 accidents/ incident with 1,261 fatalities. (Although one fatality was as a result of a hijack, and 170 as a result of a bomb).

  17. #17

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    i simplified my explanation for posting purposes but there is truth in the information.
    anyone can read the report on the Java sea crash late last year.

    today i see many airlines have correctly grounded their planes.
    Older craft will be being demothballed as I type this
    That’s interesting

    Surely they’d have to ground them after 2 incidents like this. Absolutely crazy.

  18. #18

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Why wouldn’t they just update the software if it’s just a software issue? Surely it must be more than just software if it’s just the max 8 experiencing issues.

    It sounds like it’s more of a sensor issue and the pilot not understanding the engines and sensor are slightly further forward on the plane.

    There’s no way they’d let it continue to fly if it had the exact issue you’ve described surely?
    A software update isnt just a case if popping a usb stick in and you're good to go, there will have to be a load of testing to confirm that the new code runs correctly, and there aren't any other bugs that have been created while this one is fixed, that isn't going to happen overnight.

  19. #19

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    I’m not saying it would be an easy task but if you’ve got a catastrophic error caused by a software issue you’d stop everything until you’d remedied that error.

    I work in a high risk injury and if we had one catastrophic accident like that there’s no way we’d be able to work again (or use the same equipment) until it was 99.9% certain it wouldn’t happen again.

  20. #20

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Double post

  21. #21

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    The Boeing 737 Max 8 has a known software fault.
    in Laymans terms and it is terrifying .... this is the fault.

    A concerned pilot takes manual control of his
    craft turning off the autopilot.
    the software doesn't like this and flies the plane into the ground.

    sounds unbelievable but it's happened twice now.

    maybe give the Boeing Max 8 a wide berth until these two recent crashes are explained.

    No way is this pilot error.
    Not pilot error, true, but UK -trained pilots would have recognised the 'malfunction' and responded accordingly..

  22. #22

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Not pilot error, true, but UK -trained pilots would have recognised the 'malfunction' and responded accordingly..
    The problem as I see it is this.
    The pilots knew the plane was not flying properly so they took over themselves. The software continued to overide their attempts to fly the plane until it became unflyable ... or put another way ... was no longer controllable hence the massive speed at impact.

    I think the suggestion their foreign training is to blame is dubious.
    it has happened twice now and I do not believe the pilots were to blame in either tragedy. They have been put in charge of a flawed plane IMHO

    i say this because the initial report on the Java sea tragedy implies massive impact just as yesterdays.
    this is not the sort if impact anyone would expect if the pilots were flying to any degree

  23. #23

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    If anyone is in any doubt about whether they want to get on a Boeing 737 MAX 8 ..,,
    this flight report should be in every national newspaper today IMHO


    just read the Satcom.guru post of Friday 23rd November 2018.
    First look at JT610 flight data.

    its not a good read.

  24. #24

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Ccmb sorts out another crash investigation.

  25. #25

    Re: Todays plane tragedy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysAway2 View Post
    The problem as I see it is this.
    The pilots knew the plane was not flying properly so they took over themselves. The software continued to overide their attempts to fly the plane until it became unflyable ... or put another way ... was no longer controllable hence the massive speed at impact.

    I think the suggestion their foreign training is to blame is dubious.
    it has happened twice now and I do not believe the pilots were to blame in either tragedy. They have been put in charge of a flawed plane IMHO

    i say this because the initial report on the Java sea tragedy implies massive impact just as yesterdays.
    this is not the sort if impact anyone would expect if the pilots were flying to any degree
    I spoke with a [very] close relative who is an airline pilot after the Indonesian accident. He was of the opinion they should have identified the malfunction and what [he] was trained to do to remedy it. [ was very technical !]. That's not to say the pilots in both incidents were at fault..

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