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Thread: Stay in the EU petition

  1. #826
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Which party is that?

    Can't be Labour and Corbyn - he isn't a Marxist, or anti-Semitic or a misogynist.

    The only bit that does apply to Labour is the comment about 'threatening its own members' that surely applies to attacks on Chris Williamson, Marc Wadsworth, Jackie Walker, Tony Greenstein and others for challenging Labour's institutional support for apartheid Israel?

    You are surely not claiming that media darling Margaret Hodge was threatened when she publicly abused and libelled her party leader, and then had all disciplinary processes abandoned without any hearing at all - as has been the case with all the right wing MPs and other Labour figures who have had a free pass for 3 years and been held to a totally different standard of accountability (virtually none) than those on the left. The disciplinary apparatus of the Labour Party has been controlled by people hostile to Corbyn for most of his time as leader.

  2. #827

    Re: Stay in the EU petition


  3. #828

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Is that the best you can do?

  4. #829

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    'Despite my rant, I don't actually know anything about the subject of my post so I can't challenge what you are saying'

  5. #830

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Embarrassing.

  6. #831
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    I think I hit a few sore points! i love the reaction.

  7. #832

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I think I hit a few sore points! i love the reaction.
    Well then you should probably get a life

  8. #833
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    I have one thanks.

  9. #834
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/je...n-sophy-ridge/

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...anti-semitism/

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...m-labour-party

    But I'm sure anyone can find things to support their viewpoint. I don't think it's worth pursuing this as no minds will be changed by it.

  10. #835

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    How does any of that prove corbyn is an anti semite, Marxist or misogynist?

    That’s ignoring the fact two are just opinion pieces, one from an American conservative magazine

    I’m no fan of corbyn, but it’s taken you 3 hours to come up with a defence that would make Huddersfield blush.

  11. #836
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    How does any of that prove corbyn is an anti semite, Marxist or misogynist?

    That’s ignoring the fact two are just opinion pieces, one from an American conservative magazine

    I’m no fan of corbyn, but it’s taken you 3 hours to come up with a defence that would make Huddersfield blush.
    I never said he was. Someone else said he wasn't. It didn't take me 3 hours, unlike some I don't sit monitoring this site all the time. I'm no great fan of any of them truthfully, they are generally a poor bunch. The goings on surrounding brexit are the perfect demonstration of that.

    And in my post regarding anti semitism etc I was referring to a (maybe hypothetical) party, not an individual. I hope if you read it you may see that.

    I take the comment about it being a conservative magazine but then you wouldn't expect it to be a hard left wing one would you?

  12. #837

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I never said he was.
    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    a party lead by a Marxist that is anti semetic msogynist
    Imagine having such cognitive dissonance you can’t even agree with yourself.

  13. #838
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Imagine having such cognitive dissonance you can’t even agree with yourself.
    let mt rephrase for you, a misogynist anti semetic party lead by a marxist. Sorry if the was I wrote it confused anyone.

  14. #839

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    let mt rephrase for you, a misogynist anti semetic party lead by a marxist. Sorry if the was I wrote it confused anyone.
    Do you know what the definition of a misogynist is?

  15. #840
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    misogynist
    /mɪˈsɒdʒ(ə)nɪst/
    noun
    1.
    a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.
    "a bachelor and renowned misogynist"
    synonyms: woman-hater, anti-feminist, male chauvinist, male supremacist, chauvinist, sexist; More
    adjective
    1.
    relating to or characteristic of a misogynist.
    "a misogynist attitude"

  16. #841
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/je...n-sophy-ridge/

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...anti-semitism/

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...m-labour-party

    But I'm sure anyone can find things to support their viewpoint. I don't think it's worth pursuing this as no minds will be changed by it.
    You don't help your argument by linking an opinion piece by Chris Leslie - one of the main instigators of the anti-Corbyn campaign in the PLP before he jumped ship.

    There have certainly been a number of anti-semitic social media posts from Labour Party members, and some cowardly threats to MPs and others. Those people should be swiftly expelled and subject to police action if appropriate.

    But as I understand the evidence (from a wide variety of sources) most of the anti-semitic trolls cited in the attacks on the Labour Party are lone wolf right wing nutters or members of neo-Nazi organisations (including all of the high profile prosecutions in recent years). A lot of the allegations of anti-semitism from within the Labour Party are scatter gun lists provided by Margaret Hodge and others, where the headline cases are examples of re-tweeting satirical posts (as in the case of Naz Shah MP re-tweeting the Israel as a state of the USA image from a prominent Jewish historian, Norman Finckelstein) or are based on substituting the word 'Jewish' for every reference to 'Zionist' in messages or posts.

    The new IHRA definition of anti-semitism which is claimed to be universally accepted (but has been disowned by its author because it has been misused and has still only been adopted by 8 countries) leads to that perverse outcome. In my opinion the two most dangerous and committed Zionists in world politics are Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence - Secretary of State and Vice President of the USA and both Christian Zionists.

    When the anti-semitism allegations started to fly during the Labour leadership campaign in 2015 I was shocked. I have since come to accept that some of the claims are real and disgusting (although at a lower level than the racism in the Tory Party) but also totally convinced that the issue has been distorted and 'weaponised' to attack Corbyn.

    Ruth Smeeth was given massive TV coverage (again) today to attack the Labour Party and Corbyn on the back of the Jewish Labour Movement vote of no confidence. There is no balance in the coverage. I still remember the YouTube coverage of the Chakrabarti Report launch which she and her friends hijacked by her walk out (Stephen Kinnock a willing side kick) when she claimed Marc Wadsworth had subjected her to anti-semitic abuse. He didn't. She and her allies lied. The video evidence is clear. He challenged her for feeding material to the Daily Telegraph and trying to destroy the party and the leader it had just elected. He was expelled for bringing the party into disrepute (after the anti-semitism charge was finally dropped) and she has become another teflon darling of the print and broadcast media.

    Most of the high profile cases against left Labour activists are similar to Marc Wadsworth. Tony Greenstein (who I knew well back in the 1980s) was also witch-hunted out for his anti-Zionist blogs. Tony is Jewish. The machine that expelled him and others is much more sympathetic to Ruth Smeeth than to Jeremy Corbyn.

    Labour has allegations to answer about individual (real) cases of member racism, and also about the effectiveness of its internal processes - but what this is really all about is something different and much more insidious.

  17. #842

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    let mt rephrase for you, a misogynist anti semetic party lead by a marxist. Sorry if the was I wrote it confused anyone.
    Maybe you should learn about what a comma is before you get involved in this.

  18. #843

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    misogynist
    /mɪˈsɒdʒ(ə)nɪst/
    noun
    1.
    a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.
    "a bachelor and renowned misogynist"
    synonyms: woman-hater, anti-feminist, male chauvinist, male supremacist, chauvinist, sexist; More
    adjective
    1.
    relating to or characteristic of a misogynist.
    "a misogynist attitude"
    So the Labour party (the one with the most female MP's) is mysogynistic in your opinion?

  19. #844
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    I never named any party. Others did that. I don't really give a toss, but it was quite enlightening how fast some came to the labour party's defence. Or was it defence of what some seeing it as becoming??

    Jon, I accept that is your view and your opinion but I don't accept everything you say, nor am I particularly interested.

    This began because of another poster's direct personal attack on me and has nothing to do with this thread, but what I said to him obviously set some of you off. Give it up, we aren't going to agree.

  20. #845

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I never named any party. Others did that. I don't really give a toss, but it was quite enlightening how fast some came to the labour party's defence. Or was it defence of what some seeing it as becoming??

    Jon, I accept that is your view and your opinion but I don't accept everything you say, nor am I particularly interested.

    This began because of another poster's direct personal attack on me and has nothing to do with this thread, but what I said to him obviously set some of you off. Give it up, we aren't going to agree.
    Thinly veiled "I'll believe what I want and nothing else will sway me" post IMHO.

  21. #846
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Thinly veiled "I'll believe what I want and nothing else will sway me" post IMHO.
    Same as almost everybody else really then. Particularly not going to be swayed left or right by anything posted here anyway. That's why I suggested it is given up.
    But I don't think it was that thinly veiled, cummon eric??????

  22. #847
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I never named any party. Others did that. I don't really give a toss, but it was quite enlightening how fast some came to the labour party's defence. Or was it defence of what some seeing it as becoming??

    Jon, I accept that is your view and your opinion but I don't accept everything you say, nor am I particularly interested.

    This began because of another poster's direct personal attack on me and has nothing to do with this thread, but what I said to him obviously set some of you off. Give it up, we aren't going to agree.
    Fair enough. This won't go anywhere as a way of changing minds.

    For what it's worth I left the Labour Party 6 years ago (after 27 years as a member) and have no organisational ties with them any more. I also have some major problems with the way Corbyn and his circle have led the party. But that is dwarfed in my mind by the positives he brings and by my anger at the dishonest and cynical way he has been attacked from outside and from within.

    This isn't aimed at you xnaggle , because you're not interested, but two recent articles by maverick Conservative commentator Peter Oborne are interesting and very relevant to the original subject of the thread, and the campaign to get rid of Corbyn:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...d-think-again/

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...r-leader-truth

  23. #848
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    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Fair enough. This won't go anywhere as a way of changing minds.

    For what it's worth I left the Labour Party 6 years ago (after 27 years as a member) and have no organisational ties with them any more. I also have some major problems with the way Corbyn and his circle have led the party. But that is dwarfed in my mind by the positives he brings and by my anger at the dishonest and cynical way he has been attacked from outside and from within.

    This isn't aimed at you xnaggle , because you're not interested, but two recent articles by maverick Conservative commentator Peter Oborne are interesting and very relevant to the original subject of the thread, and the campaign to get rid of Corbyn:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...d-think-again/

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...r-leader-truth
    Well Jon, at least now the 2 main parties have something in common, there are factions within each of them that wants desperately to get rid of the person leading them. If they both get ousted they'll probably end up drinking a scotch together in the Lords.

  24. #849

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Yes, though marginally. Mainly because most leave voters couldn't give a shit.
    I take it you’ve spoken to most of them?

  25. #850

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Fair enough. This won't go anywhere as a way of changing minds.

    For what it's worth I left the Labour Party 6 years ago (after 27 years as a member) and have no organisational ties with them any more. I also have some major problems with the way Corbyn and his circle have led the party. But that is dwarfed in my mind by the positives he brings and by my anger at the dishonest and cynical way he has been attacked from outside and from within.

    This isn't aimed at you xnaggle , because you're not interested, but two recent articles by maverick Conservative commentator Peter Oborne are interesting and very relevant to the original subject of the thread, and the campaign to get rid of Corbyn:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...d-think-again/

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...r-leader-truth
    I actually liked Corbyn. I was far more labour leaning than conservative but this whole brexit debate has turned it upside down for me.

    Corbyn who used to wear his heart on his sleeve now seems multi-faced. I don’t know where he stands anymore. I am pro-brexit, and I’m still not sure what Corbyn is.

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