Quote Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
The sad thing about this whole mess is that this thread has thrown up a better discussion that has been had in the media and parliament.

I’m unapologetic in believing that leaving the EU is a catastrophic cluster**** and that the referendum was incredibly premature to .. however if the deal May struck was at least reasonable and making the best of (in my opinion) a bad situation at least it would have been something to unite us. It wasn’t and it isn’t and if never will be.

Part of the problem is that while the people who voted to remain are pretty united in what remain means .... stay in the EU and help reform an continue to try and get a better deal for the UK, the people who voted leave have very different opinions on what leaving looks like... no deal, Mays deal, another deal etc. And that is where we are with no competent leaders to unite the country as they are all jostling for their own positions and careers

The way the politicians have been so utterly incompetent (labour and conservatives) is incredibly sad.

I would say that many leavers I spoke too are a little embarrassed that they are now being represented (by default) by the likes of JRM, BJ and NF... three people who have never, will never represent or relate to working class people or know what we want and need.

Private jets, off shore accounts, shifting business interests outside the uk and in JRM case spouting Etonian nonsense and being an utter corkscrew to anyone who earns less than a million pounds a year.
I think that the Remain lobby would split if it there were to be a vote regarding staying in the EU as it is right now and staying in longer term and taking into account greater integration that is probably on the cards. The whole stramash has been caused by binary voting not being suitable for a whole spectrum of options and all the complexities involved. Having said that, we wouldn't be in this mess if Cameron hadn't thought that he could see off UKIP. I am not deeply entrenched in the EU camp as I think it may not be fit for purpose in the long term but crashing out as voted for by the electorate is probably the worst scenario of all.