Stay in the EU petition

[trampie09]

Maybe someone can explain something to me.

I've always been on the side of remaining in the EU. Not because of any huge fondness for the EU, I must add. Politically, I will always side with the least fortunate, the worst off, those who need help. The rich will always make their money, they find ways to exploit the rest of us and so they should be the ones shouldering most of the responsibility for those who are worst off.

A no-deal scenario scares the hell out of me. Years of not having lots of deals in place with lots of countries that we need to have deals with. Some might find this liberating. If it affects the worst off in society in a negative way, why should we do it? I cannot support anything that has the potential to make peoples' lives worse. Notice I haven't said that "will make peoples' lives worse", just the potential.

So I cannot understand why people would happily accept a scenario that has the potential, or might cause hardship to lots of people. I cannot understand a blase attitude of "it might be ok".

Those voting leave have decided on a massive gamble for the country. One that they believe will work out eventually. One that none of them reckon will make us better off overnight, so people will be worse off for a spell at least.

If people's livelihoods and income isn't the most important issue, then I cannot understand the mentality of those who voted leave and don't care if people are made worse off. How can anyone vote for something that would make their fellow citizens potentially worse off?

Scary times.

Eric, Eric, Eric its what nearly everybody does, I have brought this up on massage-boards before, look at Mrs Thatcher they voted for her in droves - lower income tax, a chance to buy the countries housing stock for a song if you were a council house tenant, a chance to buy shares in our nationalised industries on the cheap, if you was unemployed, on benefits, a pensioner or a student you might well be worse off, if you was in work you was likely to be better off.
I would pay a lot more tax for the benefit of the country but most people wont, most people are selfish and greedy, as regards leave voters some observe it was a protest vote [wrong election to do a protest vote] and that they believed that for every £1 we gave the EU we only got 37p back etc, they weren't trying to make fellow subjects of the English crown worse off but when they vote Labour, Conservative and Lib-Dem in Assembly and Westminster elections it could be said they are happy to make others worse off if they perceive they will be better off.

[lardy]

Eric, I think you also need add "vote for something that will potentially make themselves worse off"

Des has talked about layoffs. Some of those must surely have voted leave.

[life on mars]

Eric, I think you also need add "vote for something that will potentially make themselves worse off"

Des has talked about layoffs. Some of those must surely have voted leave.

Yes they probably did vote leave ,so did folk in places like Swindon and Sunderland even after big name employers in those areas such as Nissan and Honda said , no, don't vote to leave , it may hurt you and us , and those companies pump massive values and jobs into thier local economies.

Look at Wales, it received huge amounts of investment , it was a net receiver of cash and investment subsidy , and we know it wont be matched by Westminster, but still it voted to leave.

I think this was an emotive vote, one that had some deep rooted feelings that had festered over many years, even decades , around independent law making ,immigration, border control, farming/ fishing quotas , loss of identity, over employed beaurcacts, unchallenged bloated and costly european officialdom ,obscene wages and pensions to support the commission.

It's almost like a child lashing out , after a period of frustration.

I still think if a new referendum was put in place we would not see a different result. I might be wrong?? but onna personal level , I do know folk who voted leave, will do so again .

[lardy]

Yes they probably did vote leave ,so did folk in places like Swindon and Sunderland even after big name employers in those areas such as Nissan and Honda said , no, don't vote to leave , it may hurt you and us , and those companies pump massive values and jobs into thier local economies.

Look at Wales, it received huge amounts of investment , it was a net receiver of cash and investment subsidy , and we know it wont be matched by Westminster, but still it voted to leave.

I think this was an emotive vote, one that had some deep rooted feelings that had festered over many years, even decades , around independent law making ,immigration, border control, farming/ fishing quotas , loss of identity, over employed beaurcacts, unchallenged bloated and costly european officialdom ,obscene wages and pensions to support the commission.

It's almost like a child lashing out , after a period of frustration.

I still think if a new referendum was put in place we would not see a different result. I might be wrong?? but onna personal level , I do know folk who voted leave, will do so again .

We might not get a different result, but I think the country is owed the opportunity to have their say with what we've learned. If 52%+ say this what they really want, then so be it.

Actually, Leave have a big advantage from a PR point of view. The slogan is simply "Tell Them Again". That's very powerful.

[goats]

We might not get a different result, but I think the country is owed the opportunity to have their say with what we've learned. If 52%+ say this what they really want, then so be it.

Actually, Leave have a big advantage from a PR point of view. The slogan is simply "Tell Them Again". That's very powerful.

You mean lie to them again right?

[JennyWren]

You mean lie to them again right?

If the vote is legally binding, then any illegal activity would make the result null and void. The first referendum was not legally binding.

[trampie09]

If the vote is legally binding, then any illegal activity would make the result null and void. The first referendum was not legally binding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29294087
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...F1&FORM=VDQVAP
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...1&&FORM=VRDGAR

[JennyWren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht40yrt3VrY&t=325s

This is a must watch, Farage condeded defeat at 10:01 despite a huge turnout that, at the time, said to me that the result would be leave (people only turn out in huge numbers for change).

[lardy]

You mean lie to them again right?

More than likely.

I'd make Leave favourite in a second referendum, so I don't know why leavers are scared of the prospect.

[goats]

More than likely.

I'd make Leave favourite in a second referendum, so I don't know why leavers are scared of the prospect.

I’d say the powers that be are scared, scared that people are now much more aware of what they are voting for, hence I reckon it would be at least 65/35 to remain. Once fooled....twice.....

[The Bloop]

Here's my contribution which I saw elsewhere yesterday-

52% Pride and Prejudice

48% Sense and Sensibility

[William Treseder]

More than likely.

I'd make Leave favourite in a second referendum, so I don't know why leavers are scared of the prospect.

I wouldn’t say leavers are scared of the prospect. I’d wager that it would be another leave result anyway.
It would set an uneasy precedent though.
The way the government has handled it, has been nothing short of amateurish and shambolic, from day 1.
Whether it is a good or bad decision to leave, that’s what the people voted for, and that’s what the government should have done on the 29th. No deals, just out.

[lardy]

I wouldn’t say leavers are scared of the prospect. I’d wager that it would be another leave result anyway.
It would set an uneasy precedent though.
The way the government has handled it, has been nothing short of amateurish and shambolic, from day 1.
Whether it is a good or bad decision to leave, that’s what the people voted for, and that’s what the government should have done on the 29th. No deals, just out.

Yeah we should just bin 40% of our trade just coz.

[Hilts]

The country voted leave so lets get out.
Farage , Johnson and co should be put in govt with one as PM.

They should then immediately start putting in 350m a week to the NHS.

They should then be taken to task if it doesnt happen.

[rs3100]

Better trade opportunities

With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

[xsnaggle]

With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

Why do you see this as a necessary part of a trade deal with these countries. Immigration is not normally a part of any trade deal (Except in the EU) and why would any country insist on a clause to make their best workers able to leave the country. It's just plain silly, like so much of the other stuff related to brexit.

As I mentioned before, for the last 2 years and more every single piece of bed news in this country has been blamed on the threat of brexit and some of those were invented and non-news. What did everybody blame before remain lost that vote.?????

[lardy]

Why do you see this as a necessary part of a trade deal with these countries. Immigration is not normally a part of any trade deal (Except in the EU) and why would any country insist on a clause to make their best workers able to leave the country. It's just plain silly, like so much of the other stuff related to brexit.

As I mentioned before, for the last 2 years and more every single piece of bed news in this country has been blamed on the threat of brexit and some of those were invented and non-news. What did everybody blame before remain lost that vote.?????

People blamed the EU.

[xsnaggle]

People blamed the EU.

YUP!!

[lardy]

YUP!!

So Remain would win a second vote

[rs3100]

Because both India and China have been trying for a long long time to make it easier to get their citizens into this country. Irrespective of what people will think, both of these countries will be in a very strong position when negotiating a trade deal with the UK - we will be desperate for deals and for immigrants to work.

There’s nowt wrong with immigration, but for those who voted leave because of immigration are in for a rude awakening.

Edit - this post was meant to quote the why immigration with trade post.

[William Treseder]

Yeah we should just bin 40% of our trade just coz.

That’s just plain scaremongering nonsense.

[lardy]

That’s just plain scaremongering nonsense.

He's talking about no deal. Change "bin" for something else if you want, but it's not going to help us.

[William Treseder]

Why do you see this as a necessary part of a trade deal with these countries. Immigration is not normally a part of any trade deal (Except in the EU) and why would any country insist on a clause to make their best workers able to leave the country. It's just plain silly, like so much of the other stuff related to brexit.

As I mentioned before, for the last 2 years and more every single piece of bed news in this country has been blamed on the threat of brexit and some of those were invented and non-news. What did everybody blame before remain lost that vote.?????

Dave Jones!

[xsnaggle]

Dave Jones!

Well he probably deserved it. But then he wouldn't have complained, he'd have just dusted himself down and gone again. (As was that come (sic) again?

[WJ99mobile]

With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

I’m all for migration for the correct skills required.