Stay in the EU petition

[Wales-Bales]

We already have one with both. The US are not going to give little UK the same trade deal as they give the big EU... That's how trade deals work.... The bigger you are the better the deal you get. It also takes years to negotiate trade deals, they don't just grow in trees and personally I wouldn't trust this government to negotiate a reduced price on a sofa from DFS

Little UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world

[xsnaggle]

Indeed. The maths are pretty simple on this one. And yet we keep hearing this "it's worse for them than us' line, presumably perpetuated by trash papers like the DM. When will these people wake up?

I never said it was worse for them than us.
The only reason I posted the comment (By a senior German Politician) was because earlier in the thread when WB said a no deal would hurt the Germans he was ridiculed by people, and it was suggestyed that they would barely notice. The only real point is that it is an ITK German politician saying it, not some layman with a personal opinion.

[xsnaggle]

Ok, I'll bite. Let's suppose the forecast of a loss of 100k German jobs due to Brexit is correct. Agree?

German exports to the UK constitute around 6.5% of all German exports. So a 0.5% loss in German GDP would result from a smallish reduction in German exports. So if you take UK exports to Germany, France, Holland, Ireland, Belgium, Spain and Italy and ignore the other UK to EU exports you have approximately 38% of UK exports. Using the same ratio, the loss of those exports would constitute in excess of a 3% loss in UK GDP and 600k jobs lost.

If the Germans are worried, the UK subjects should be petrified ...

Az I'm not dis agreeing with you, but see my previous post regarding my reason for posting the comment. It was only in the spirit of fair debate.

[the other bob wilson]

You can ask lardy about my analytical skillIs. The secret is to never take sides, and just look at the facts

Beyond most of us I'm afraid, but, who knows, maybe you might be able to do it one day eh?

[the other bob wilson]

People knew what they were voting for, you are just repeating the media construct that they didn't know.

Seems a bit opinioish for someone who deals only in facts - my own opinion, and recollection from the way the matter was discussed three years ago, is that people leaving without a deal, which someone like you would, apparently, have us believe was the preferred method of getting out of the EU on Referendum day was barely discussed.

[the other bob wilson]

Little UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world

One place behind Germany who are, we are told, getting themselves into a terrible state at the prospect of a no deal Brexit and yet Farage and the ERG nutters keep on banging on about what a great opportunity such a situation would provide us with .

[lardy]

One place behind Germany who are, we are told, getting themselves into a terrible state at the prospect of a no deal Brexit and yet Farage and the ERG nutters keep on banging on about what a great opportunity such a situation would provide us with .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angu...s_by_GDP_(PPP)


In 1980 we were eighth, 1990 eighth, 2000 tenth, 2010 ninth.

Almost as if the way the EU has changed has been good for us. It's another example of the cognitive dissonance mentioned earlier. Brexiters really shouldn't be using our good economy as an argument, but for some reason they do.

[Croesy Blue]

How can anyone say any of one’s what we were voting for? In November 2016 (after the vote) everyone was still saying we would be in the single market. Johnson and Gove wrote articles on it for the sun.

This was after the no vote so anyone saying no deal was what was expected and wanted from the start is talking complete rubbish.

Here’s one from the month after the vote too, the gas lighting on this is ridiculous-

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html

[Croesy Blue]

https://twitter.com/frankmcnallyit/s...866241536?s=21

Cognitive dissonance the order of the day for all brexitteers.

[trampie09]

How can anyone say any of one’s what we were voting for? In November 2016 (after the vote) everyone was still saying we would be in the single market. Johnson and Gove wrote articles on it for the sun.

This was after the no vote so anyone saying no deal was what was expected and wanted from the start is talking complete rubbish.

Here’s one from the month after the vote too, the gas lighting on this is ridiculous-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7104846.html

The public voted for no deal, Johnson is for Johnson and no one else hence he was said to have a different speech/article backing different sides ready depending on the result of Brexit.

[jon1959]

The public voted for no deal, Johnson is for Johnson and no one else hence he was said to have a different speech/article backing different sides ready depending on the result of Brexit.

When did the public vote for 'no deal'?

I missed that one.

[trampie09]

Found an article about Johnson now Croesy Blue:-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...emaining-in-eu

[trampie09]

When did the public vote for 'no deal'?

I missed that one.

That is what leave meant to most ordinary folk that voted out, I know many that voted leave and have asked them.

[lardy]

That is what leave meant to most ordinary folk that voted out, I know many that voted leave and have asked them.

Mmm ok

[the other bob wilson]

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was...on-referendum/

[trampie09]

Old, thick and stupid was the headlines straight after the referendum, now nearly 3 years later some people think that those people were voting for Canada this and Norway that, single market this and customs union that, lol.
Oh no they were voting out as in OUT.

[the other bob wilson]

Old, thick and stupid was the headlines straight after the referendum, now nearly 3 years later some people think that those people were voting for Canada this and Norway that, single market this and customs union that, lol.
Oh no they were voting out as in OUT.

In your opinion.

The link I have just posted shows that, in a Referendum where the question was a straightforward yes or no (so you would have hoped that those trying to influence voters would have been as precise and clear in the language they used as possible), politicians were imprecise in the use of their language to a degree that is not acceptable when the decision being taken was such an important one.

[JennyWren]

That is what leave meant to most ordinary folk that voted out, I know many that voted leave and have asked them.

In the early years, every time I asked a leave voter "Why?" I got a different answer.

Now all they do is repeat the mantra "Brexit means Brexit, Out means Out" the stupid ****ers have probably forgotten why they voted out in the first place. Twats.

[JennyWren]

When did the public vote for 'no deal'?

I missed that one.

The first person to say "No Deal" was May when she first uttered the phrase "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal". Until then, no-one countenanced it at all.

[lardy]

Old, thick and stupid was the headlines straight after the referendum, now nearly 3 years later some people think that those people were voting for Canada this and Norway that, single market this and customs union that, lol.
Oh no they were voting out as in OUT.

The famous quote was it'll be the easiest deal in history. Probably one of the top three most memorable things from the leave campaign.

[dml1954]

In the early years, every time I asked a leave voter "Why?" I got a different answer.

Now all they do is repeat the mantra "Brexit means Brexit, Out means Out" the stupid ****ers have probably forgotten why they voted out in the first place. Twats.

And now all the remainers do is repeat the mantra 'the 17.4m who voted out didnt know what they were doing'. The stupid ******* actually probably think that they are doing us all a favour. Twats.

[lardy]

And now all the remainers do is repeat the mantra 'the 17.4m who voted out didnt know what they were doing'. The stupid ******* actually probably think that they are doing us all a favour. Twats.

I think you need to extend that quotation to the end of your post

[JennyWren]

Now you are getting ****ing personal. You do not know I have Russian sympathies. you know sod all about me. Do not suggest I have lost touch with anything. If you had ever lived in Azerbaijan and seen how ordinary folks live (if you can call it that) you would never ever dream of making the stupid comment you did.

You haven't changed have you jirga?

You have lost touch with how democracy works in more established countries. The vote was 3 years ago, things have changed, and I have yet to read a single positive reason for leaving other than your pathetic statement of "they won". It's not a football game.

I haven't been to Azerbaijan, but I have been to other places where dictatorship is ripe. In fact, some of the things May has been doing lately (using tax payers money to promote her anti-MP speech for example) are completely in line with demagogues that are in power in places like Venezuela, the Philippines, China and the US right now.

Living in a place like Azerbaijan where people are arrested arbitrarily, detained indefinitely, and disappear for ever, I can fully respect the wish of many of its inhabitants to stay on the right side of the law. Hopefully my opinion that, just in doing that just in order to survive, that people suddenly become defenders of their criminal and illegal Governments. It's not brainwashing, per se, but it is a form of conditioning. Therefore, my statement is not stupid, it is considerably better thought out than your "banter" madness.

This, however, is the UK. We're expected to abide by a vote that was not legally binding, the fact of which means that certain rules were broken but did not invalidate the result. It was an unnecessary election that pandered to pricks like Rees-Mogg and Yaxley-Lennon in equal measure (but with different agendas). It was borne from a media campaign that blamed immigration for whatever minor problems existed in the UK at the time, a campaign that tangibly ended following the referendum result. And, according to polls, the country is now a Remain country. What is undemocratic about asking people to vote again? Preferably on the following question

1) Leave with No Deal
2) Remain

In 1974 there were TWO general elections. Was that undemocratic?

Between 1935-1945 there were ZERO elections. Was that undemocratic?

Democracy is fluid, as am I which means that I do change and I am happy to do so based on evidence. However, you seem to prefer to tug your forelocks and let the clever folks like Rees-Mogg make the decisions.

[JennyWren]

And now all the remainers do is repeat the mantra 'the 17.4m who voted out didnt know what they were doing'. The stupid ******* actually probably think that they are doing us all a favour. Twats.

No, they usually blow away leavers stupid comments on things like the Lisbon Treaty, and the number of rules the EU actually forced on the UK (It's fewer than 100 btw).

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...exit-1-5978705

Leavers tend to do things like Piers Morgan, and melt away in the heat of a fact. Twats.

[xsnaggle]

You have lost touch with how democracy works in more established countries. The vote was 3 years ago, things have changed, and I have yet to read a single positive reason for leaving other than your pathetic statement of "they won". It's not a football game.

I haven't been to Azerbaijan, but I have been to other places where dictatorship is ripe. In fact, some of the things May has been doing lately (using tax payers money to promote her anti-MP speech for example) are completely in line with demagogues that are in power in places like Venezuela, the Philippines, China and the US right now.

Living in a place like Azerbaijan where people are arrested arbitrarily, detained indefinitely, and disappear for ever, I can fully respect the wish of many of its inhabitants to stay on the right side of the law. Hopefully my opinion that, just in doing that just in order to survive, that people suddenly become defenders of their criminal and illegal Governments. It's not brainwashing, per se, but it is a form of conditioning. Therefore, my statement is not stupid, it is considerably better thought out than your "banter" madness.

This, however, is the UK. We're expected to abide by a vote that was not legally binding, the fact of which means that certain rules were broken but did not invalidate the result. It was an unnecessary election that pandered to pricks like Rees-Mogg and Yaxley-Lennon in equal measure (but with different agendas). It was borne from a media campaign that blamed immigration for whatever minor problems existed in the UK at the time, a campaign that tangibly ended following the referendum result. And, according to polls, the country is now a Remain country. What is undemocratic about asking people to vote again? Preferably on the following question

1) Leave with No Deal
2) Remain

In 1974 there were TWO general elections. Was that undemocratic?

Between 1935-1945 there were ZERO elections. Was that undemocratic?

Democracy is fluid, as am I which means that I do change and I am happy to do so based on evidence. However, you seem to prefer to tug your forelocks and let the clever folks like Rees-Mogg make the decisions.

You are extremely insulting. I have lost touch with nothing. You are well over the line!!!!!