We were cheated today

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Do you think the linesman made the mistake deliberately? Do you think he knew Azpilicieta was offside but decided not to raise his flag?

Within half a second of the ball being flicked on by Alonso, Manga is now marginally closer to the goal than Azpilicieta, so I can imagine a scenario where the linesman maybe has a slight doubt in his mind and decides there is no offside. Morrison apart, there's no appeal from City defenders, least of all from Manga, who would have been in the best position to have seen it. In real time, it's not quite as straightforward as we make out with a freeze frame of the point where Alonso heads it on, though it is a blunder. I don't recall lots of anger from the crowd at the time, either. Was it deliberate? Who knows.

There might be another issue to come out of this as well. In that split fraction of a second, are linesmen really able to judge perfectly what is and isn't offside? How much do they rely on defenders claiming an opponent was offside etc?

[the other bob wilson]

Within half a second of the ball being flicked on by Alonso, Manga is now marginally closer to the goal than Azpilicieta, so I can imagine a scenario where the linesman maybe has a slight doubt in his mind and decides there is no offside. Morrison apart, there's no appeal from City defenders, least of all from Manga, who would have been in the best position to have seen it. In real time, it's not quite as straightforward as we make out with a freeze frame of the point where Alonso heads it on, though it is a blunder. I don't recall lots of anger from the crowd at the time, either. Was it deliberate? Who knows.

There might be another issue to come out of this as well. In that split fraction of a second, are linesmen really able to judge perfectly what is and isn't offside? How much do they rely on defenders claiming an opponent was offside etc?

Etheridge was appealing as the ball hit the net, but I admit that the lack of argument from City players about the decision was a surprise.

[SABlue]

Etheridge was appealing as the ball hit the net, but I admit that the lack of argument from City players about the decision was a surprise.

What about the two dead cert penalty appeals on Morrison? and that awful challenge on Zahore?

If one of those penalties were given that would have given us a 2-0 lead AND Rudiger would have received TWO bookings and would have been sent Off - No matter how you look at it we were truly and utterly Robbed

[the other bob wilson]

Do you think the linesman made the mistake deliberately? Do you think he knew Azpilicieta was offside but decided not to raise his flag?

No, i don't and I don't see where I said anything to suggest I did. Let's be clear here, what happened was that a linesman, presumably reckoned to be one of the best at that job in the country, failed to spot that a goal scorer who never got remotely close to being onside was a yard offside when he made contact with the ball and his excuse is that he couldn't see because the corner taker was in his way. I ask again, if we are to believe the linesman, why aren't there regular conversations in the media about how yet another goal was wrongly given because the linesman failed to spot an obviously offside player at a corner?

People love to see conspiracies everywhere these days, but I've always thought that cock up beats conspiracy most times and I believe it does here - the linesman messed up in a major, major way, had he never ever found himself with a corner taker standing in front of him before?

[Croesy Blue]

Do you think the linesman made the mistake deliberately? Do you think he knew Azpilicieta was offside but decided not to raise his flag?

Does missing an obvious offside make it any better than doing it on deliberately anyway?

[Croesy Blue]

I've seen on social media trying to defend him are doing so because of Neil Warnock's involvement.

In fairness I think a lot of it is because Warnock was going mad at the 4th official and there’s been a movement to try and curb this because violence against refs in non professional football is at an all time high.

There’s also the point Warnock wasn’t too upset about our offside goal against Brighton.

I can see why Warnock is annoyed, the ref was terrible at the weekend and definitely cost us at least a point. But Warnock is a bit of a hypocrite, as much as I respect the man.

[The Lone Gunman]

Does missing an obvious offside make it any better than doing it on deliberately anyway?

As far as I can gather, pretty much everyone in the ground missed an obvious offside until they saw the TV replays, including the officials, the City players, the commentators and the spectators.

[The Lone Gunman]

No, i don't and I don't see where I said anything to suggest I did. Let's be clear here, what happened was that a linesman, presumably reckoned to be one of the best at that job in the country, failed to spot that a goal scorer who never got remotely close to being onside was a yard offside when he made contact with the ball and his excuse is that he couldn't see because the corner taker was in his way. I ask again, if we are to believe the linesman, why aren't there regular conversations in the media about how yet another goal was wrongly given because the linesman failed to spot an obviously offside player at a corner?

People love to see conspiracies everywhere these days, but I've always thought that cock up beats conspiracy most times and I believe it does here - the linesman messed up in a major, major way, had he never ever found himself with a corner taker standing in front of him before?

Your tone, especially in your opening comments, suggested you thought City had been cheated. I think they were extremely unfortunate, but I don’t think they were cheated. I just don’t believe officials make these errors deliberately and I don’t think they make any more of them now than they did in the past. For me, it’s a simple case of so many cameras and so much scrutiny.

No talk of Brighton being cheated earlier in the season when Bamba scored an offside winner. No talk of it when Southampton and Huddersfield were denied clear penalties either. City have had some really rough luck with decisions this season, but they’ve been on the right side of a few blatant errors too. That seems to be ignored when these discussions take place, much like the foul on Rudiger which could have given Chelsea a penalty with the score at 0-0 on Sunday.

[the other bob wilson]

The goal against Brighton happened so quickly and Bamba was offside for only a split second - it was a classic case of the so many cameras point you make and I'd like to think that I would have been fairly philosophical about it if it had been scored against us. Sunday was completely different, the scorer was never onside! Have you seen such an obviously offside goal given in the Premier League, with all its cameras, this season?
As for the foul on Rudiger, that's why I said all but one of the major decisions went against us, I also mentioned it in my blog piece on the game.

[Baloo]

The goal against Brighton happened so quickly and Bamba was offside for only a split second - it was a classic case of the so many cameras point you make and I'd like to think that I would have been fairly philosophical about it if it had been scored against us. Sunday was completely different, the scorer was never onside! Have you seen such an obviously offside goal given in the Premier League, with all its cameras, this season?
As for the foul on Rudiger, that's why I said all but one of the major decisions went against us, I also mentioned it in my blog piece on the game.

Out of interest, was Azpi onside when the corner was taken as he was behind the ball?

[The Lone Gunman]

The goal against Brighton happened so quickly and Bamba was offside for only a split second - it was a classic case of the so many cameras point you make and I'd like to think that I would have been fairly philosophical about it if it had been scored against us. Sunday was completely different.....

The outcome, however, was the same. A goal counted that shouldn't have been allowed and almost certainly won't be next season when VAR is introduced to the Premier League.

I think Warnock's comments today were somewhat ironic when he said: "He (Mike Reilly) has been manufactured, almost like a robot. He knows everything about the rules but I feel these people struggle to understand the game and the human element."

The linesman's mistake on Sunday was clearly human error. It was a poor one and desperately unlucky from City's perspective, but it's not as if the guy was deliberately trying to cheat City out of a result. He's not a robot. These errors happen all the time and, in my opinion at least, it's only the fact that we have so many camera angles in top flight matches and other high-profile televised games that they end up being scrutinised to the degree they are. Indeed, I reckon if the exact same goal had been scored against City last season in a non-TV Championship game where the only cameras in operation were on the halfway line, nobody would have noticed.

We see offside decisions awarded at all levels on a regular basis that are incorrect and we also see goals allowed that should have been ruled out. That's because the officials are not robots and there is a human element, which means in almost all cases they're just guessing, the same as the fans in the stands.

I've spoken to a lad in work this morning who was there on Sunday. He said there was no kind of reaction from the crowd to the first Chelsea goal other than moans and groans of disappointment. He wasn't aware of the offside issue until after the game and I'm guessing the same is true for the players and most if not all of the rest of the crowd. I didn't spot the offside on first viewing in real time and neither did the commentators on Sky or the BBC. It's just horrendous luck from City's point of view that the one man who could and should have been in a position to see it and award a free-kick was apparently distracted during the split-second the incident took place.

[Elwood Blues]

Out of interest, was Azpi onside when the corner was taken as he was behind the ball?

a

You can't be offside if you get the ball directly from a corner.

[Baloo]

a

You can't be offside if you get the ball directly from a corner.

OK, just wanted to check if I understood TOBW's point about him being never onside, as I presumed he only became offside when the flick-on occurred. I'll have to check with the Mrs.

[the other bob wilson]

If he had headed the ball in directly from the corner, he would have been offside because he would have been offside when the corner was taken, and without that near post flick on, he would have been offside when he scored - as far as I'm concerned, he was offside from the time the corner was taken to the time it was flicked on by Alonso - i.e. all of the time that counted as far as the validity of the goal is concerned.

[lardy]

If he had headed the ball in directly from the corner, he would have been offside because he would have been offside when the corner was taken, and without that near post flick on, he would have been offside when he scored - as far as I'm concerned, he was offside from the time the corner was taken to the time it was flicked on by Alonso - i.e. all of the time that counted as far as the validity of the goal is concerned.

But the ball would not have moved forward from the corner, so it's impossible to be offside straight from a corner.

[splott parker]

Impossible to be in an offside position when the corner was taken.

[Croesy Blue]

If he had headed the ball in directly from the corner, he would have been offside because he would have been offside when the corner was taken

But you can’t be offside when a corner is taken. Or have I read this wrong?

He’s in an “offside position” but he’s only offside once one of his teammates flick the ball on.

[Croesy Blue]

Impossible to be offside anytime the ball is coming back on the pitch; corner, goal kick or throw in.

[lardy]

Impossible to be offside anytime the ball is coming back on the pitch; corner, goal kick or throw in.

More teams should exploit the goal kick rule. Need a keeper with a mighty kick, though.

[Lawnmower]

The outcome, however, was the same. A goal counted that shouldn't have been allowed and almost certainly won't be next season when VAR is introduced to the Premier League.

I think Warnock's comments today were somewhat ironic when he said: "He (Mike Reilly) has been manufactured, almost like a robot. He knows everything about the rules but I feel these people struggle to understand the game and the human element."

The linesman's mistake on Sunday was clearly human error. It was a poor one and desperately unlucky from City's perspective, but it's not as if the guy was deliberately trying to cheat City out of a result. He's not a robot. These errors happen all the time and, in my opinion at least, it's only the fact that we have so many camera angles in top flight matches and other high-profile televised games that they end up being scrutinised to the degree they are. Indeed, I reckon if the exact same goal had been scored against City last season in a non-TV Championship game where the only cameras in operation were on the halfway line, nobody would have noticed.

We see offside decisions awarded at all levels on a regular basis that are incorrect and we also see goals allowed that should have been ruled out. That's because the officials are not robots and there is a human element, which means in almost all cases they're just guessing, the same as the fans in the stands.

I've spoken to a lad in work this morning who was there on Sunday. He said there was no kind of reaction from the crowd to the first Chelsea goal other than moans and groans of disappointment. He wasn't aware of the offside issue until after the game and I'm guessing the same is true for the players and most if not all of the rest of the crowd. I didn't spot the offside on first viewing in real time and neither did the commentators on Sky or the BBC. It's just horrendous luck from City's point of view that the one man who could and should have been in a position to see it and award a free-kick was apparently distracted during the split-second the incident took place.

For me it wasn’t just that decision- in fairness that’s the linesman’s incompetence, not the refs.

It was the fact that it was one of 4 major decisions they gave against us -all of which would have affected the result.

Yes, there was a shirt pull by Gunnar , but that wasn’t even bad enough to be on the Sky highlights- although a 3rd City penalty claim ( for handball) was - admittedly I didn’t think that one was in fairness.

The tug on Morrison’s arm was blatant and clear as day. How the hell does he think Morrison has fallen the way he has- and the one on Zohore, he didn’t even want to give a free kick at first.

He was a coward from the start- blatant booking offence on Murphy, ignored intentional handball by Hazard and then booked Artur who chopped him down in frustration. He could have booked Artur earlier, but his previous poor decision meant he was in an awkward position to do so.

He also allowed his linesman to be shouted at time and time again by Ruiz.

Gave every decision Hazard told him too.

He wasnt a cheat ( although my wife thought he’d been paid off) , but clearly wasn’t capable of dealing with top footballers without inherent bias or a lack of courage to make decisions which might anger them.

[jeepster]

For me it wasn’t just that decision- in fairness that’s the linesman’s incompetence, not the refs.

It was the fact that it was one of 4 major decisions they gave against us -all of which would have affected the result.

Yes, there was a shirt pull by Gunnar , but that wasn’t even bad enough to be on the Sky highlights- although a 3rd City penalty claim ( for handball) was - admittedly I didn’t think that one was in fairness.

The tug on Morrison’s arm was blatant and clear as day. How the hell does he think Morrison has fallen the way he has- and the one on Zohore, he didn’t even want to give a free kick at first.

He was a coward from the start- blatant booking offence on Murphy, ignored intentional handball by Hazard and then booked Artur who chopped him down in frustration. He could have booked Artur earlier, but his previous poor decision meant he was in an awkward position to do so.

He also allowed his linesman to be shouted at time and time again by Ruiz.

Gave every decision Hazard told him too.

He wasnt a cheat ( although my wife thought he’d been paid off) , but clearly wasn’t capable of dealing with top footballers without inherent bias or a lack of courage to make decisions which might anger them.

That is a good summary of the events

[Blue blood]

For me it wasn’t just that decision- in fairness that’s the linesman’s incompetence, not the refs.

It was the fact that it was one of 4 major decisions they gave against us -all of which would have affected the result.

Yes, there was a shirt pull by Gunnar , but that wasn’t even bad enough to be on the Sky highlights- although a 3rd City penalty claim ( for handball) was - admittedly I didn’t think that one was in fairness.

The tug on Morrison’s arm was blatant and clear as day. How the hell does he think Morrison has fallen the way he has- and the one on Zohore, he didn’t even want to give a free kick at first.

He was a coward from the start- blatant booking offence on Murphy, ignored intentional handball by Hazard and then booked Artur who chopped him down in frustration. He could have booked Artur earlier, but his previous poor decision meant he was in an awkward position to do so.

He also allowed his linesman to be shouted at time and time again by Ruiz.

Gave every decision Hazard told him too.

He wasnt a cheat ( although my wife thought he’d been paid off) , but clearly wasn’t capable of dealing with top footballers without inherent bias or a lack of courage to make decisions which might anger them.

Well said, agree completely

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I've spoken to a lad in work this morning who was there on Sunday. He said there was no kind of reaction from the crowd to the first Chelsea goal other than moans and groans of disappointment. He wasn't aware of the offside issue until after the game and I'm guessing the same is true for the players and most if not all of the rest of the crowd.

This 100%. I was in the opposite corner of the ground to the linesman and all I heard was frustration. Quite a few City fans around me leaving the stand at the end of the game were talking about the goal being offside, not that we had the slightest chance of seeing it. The power of the internet, of course.

[Lawnmower]

Absolutely, because they put themselves in a position to get the decision. Average players don't. All of this bullshit about the 'big clubs' getting the nod is rubbish. it's a childish argument. Good players get on the ball and play in teams where they have more possession and more attacking opportunities. I'm sure that we've had a few freekicks given to us this season that shouldn't have been but it won't be as many as Man City, Liverpool etc because they have the ball more and possess players who put themselves in positions that make defenders act desperately. There's no bias.

Can you apply this logic to why Morrison at corners.

He’s the target for virtually every one, so is in ‘the position ‘ as many times as anyone. Yet he still hasn’t been given a penalty this season.

[Tuerto]

Can you apply this logic to why Morrison at corners.

He’s the target for virtually every one, so is in ‘the position ‘ as many times as anyone. Yet he still hasn’t been given a penalty this season.

It's a good question, depends on whether the referee deems it enough for a penalty although i was convinced that he was pulled on sunday and that it was a penalty. I haven't seen him impeded in that way in any other game this season and thought that it was a blatant pen. You may have a different perspective to me, you've also been to more away games than me and may have seen fouls that could've been a penalty. I'd say that your point is a separate issue, there has been pulling and contact at set pieces since the game was invented, Referees have never got a grip on it, largely because they would have to give a penalty at almost every set piece, you know as well as me having defended another corners and set pieces in your time. What i would say though is that there may be a bit of discrimination towards big central defenders in general, especially at set pieces fro referees, Sometimes it can look like the fouling in the penalty area is a mutual thing between players so refs let it go as it can be very crowded and chaotic. I think you've made a good point, maybe there's a need for an official to just concentrate on what goes on with the players at set pieces rather than the delivery as well, although i'm of the opinion that shit sometimes happens, I'm sure that Morrisson has got away with a fair few when defending our goal.