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Thread: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

  1. #76

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    1st handball shout - shot looked to be on target with only the hand between the goal and the ball
    2nd handball shout - headed down onto his own arm, arm was not next to his side but lifted towards head

    Didn't see the other two shouts but fair play ......... Thank God "We have the BEST Refs" in the "Best league" in the world

    Let's see what their excuses are this week

  2. #77

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomm View Post
    I don't think either 'handball' was a penalty. What really cost us the game was the Hoilett miss and inexcusable marking for Wood's first goal.
    Yup, although the hoilett chance wasn't easy, the ball was played at pace, maybe he should've taken a touch. It's ok to moan about decisions not going our way although we've played enough football and had enough opportunities to be a bit more creative and adventerous, especially against teams where we have had a chance of getting a result. Not enough quality in the right areas.

  3. #78

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Yeah, I've seen it happen at the top level. I've had free kicks against me for doing it with my shite control.

    I'm a fairminded fan, I always try to take emotion out of it. If that was against us, I wouldn't complain.
    Fair enough, although you're talking about your own experiences, what are the laws? Maybe Mike Dean Implemented them-I was of the mind that if your hands-arms are in a natural position and the ball hits then it isn't a penalty. It becomes a penalty if the arms are raised or if a player postions his arms in order to make contact. I didn't see any of those things.

  4. #79

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What constitutes a natural position for an arm? Attached to a body?
    Arms down by the side i presume, not raised or in an unatural position in conjunction with the ball. Remember the pen against Bournemouth? i don't think the Bournemoth player meant to handle the ball, although his arm shouldn't have been where it was.

  5. #80

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair enough, although you're talking about your own experiences, what are the laws? Maybe Mike Dean Implemented them-I was of the mind that if your hands-arms are in a natural position and the ball hits then it isn't a penalty. It becomes a penalty if the arms are raised or if a player postions his arms in order to make contact. I didn't see any of those things.
    You are so wrong. Def handball and def trip on gunner. And obviously off side for first goal.

  6. #81

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair enough, although you're talking about your own experiences, what are the laws? Maybe Mike Dean Implemented them-I was of the mind that if your hands-arms are in a natural position and the ball hits then it isn't a penalty. It becomes a penalty if the arms are raised or if a player postions his arms in order to make contact. I didn't see any of those things.
    Well this is the age old problem with the laws. The word deliberate makes every handball except the very obvious impossible to call because refs aren't mind readers and don't know what's truly deliberate.

    When players play the ball onto their own hand or forearm (very difficult to play it onto your own upper arm) I see them given every time.

    And Mike Dean must have initially thought the same as it could only have come off Mee's head onto his hand.

  7. #82

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    It's all a big joke to the media. They've been collectively laughing at the thought of Warnock's post-match interview since the decision was reversed.

  8. #83

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Well this is the age old problem with the laws. The word deliberate makes every handball except the very obvious impossible to call because refs aren't mind readers and don't know what's truly deliberate.

    When players play the ball onto their own hand or forearm (very difficult to play it onto your own upper arm) I see them given every time.

    And Mike Dean must have initially thought the same as it could only have come off Mee's head onto his hand.
    It is contentious, i agree, The point is, what are the laws, why would it be different if a player ****s up a header and knocks it onto his own arm as opposed to the opposition doing it? In both situations the player is unsuspecting, how can both scenarios become different?

  9. #84

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barmy View Post
    You are so wrong. Def handball and def trip on gunner. And obviously off side for first goal.
    Prove me wrong then. I'm just saying what i think the laws state, i could well be wrong.

  10. #85

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Hand ball rule is so unclear and interpreted differently by almost every ref. Some would have given the second one, some would even have given the first, i've seen them given.

    Personally would just rather a zero tolerance to handball, it's handball if it hits your hand. Fair enough with the first one his hands are down by his side and it rockets against them, but for me that's flying at goal. While he can't chop them off, players could easily position them behind their back when the shot is coming in.

    VAR won't help with these things, they are still down to interpretation by humans. If we want to help refs, let's at least make some of these rules a bit clearer.

  11. #86

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    It doesn't have to be hand ball on purpose does it
    Indeed it does.

    From the FA's website:

    Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct

    A direct free kick is awarded if a player handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area).

    Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. The following must be considered:

    1) the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand).
    2) the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball).
    3) the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence.

    I haven't seen any of the incidents in today's game so can't comment on those, but the current rule is that handling the ball must be deliberate in order for it to be considered an offence. I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere recently that the rule is changing next season.

  12. #87

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    I'm sitting here fuming about the decisions that went against us.
    But did we really deserve 3 points from that performance.
    Not happy with a fair few players today.(and coaches).

  13. #88

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy View Post
    It's all a big joke to the media. They've been collectively laughing at the thought of Warnock's post-match interview since the decision was reversed.
    Can you blame them?

    Regardless of which club he's been at, I've always believed that Warnock's post-match rants about officials are both over the top and counterproductive. His post-match interview with Sky today was excellent. I just wish he showed that kind of restraint more often.

  14. #89

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    I was unable to watch any of the game today so have not seen the penalty shouts, but Sean Morrison described the handball as a harsh decision, though he did say once a penalty had been given, he saw no reason for Mike Dean's change of mind - by the sound of it, Morrison thought the shout for a foul on Gunnar was the more obvious penalty.

  15. #90

    Re: BURNLEY v CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bobh View Post
    At least we've got a half-decent ref today.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn View Post
    Dont speak too soon.
    😠
    I'll keep schtum in future.

  16. #91

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I was unable to watch any of the game today so have not seen the penalty shouts, but Sean Morrison described the handball as a harsh decision, though he did say once a penalty had been given, he saw no reason for Mike Dean's change of mind - by the sound of it, Morrison thought the shout for a foul on Gunnar was the more obvious penalty.
    The one Gunnar was involved in was the most contentious in my opinion, the defender made it look like he had extended his leg while he was in an awkward position, i don't think he was facing Gunnar but was aware of where he was. I don't think it was a penalty, I reckon Gunnar left his leg in a bit and that there wasn't enough contact to make it a foul. I'd say that the defender was being cute.

  17. #92

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Watamistakatomaka View Post
    Zohore is fkn shit thats why
    Astute

  18. #93

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair enough, although you're talking about your own experiences, what are the laws? Maybe Mike Dean Implemented them-I was of the mind that if your hands-arms are in a natural position and the ball hits then it isn't a penalty. It becomes a penalty if the arms are raised or if a player postions his arms in order to make contact. I didn't see any of those things.
    PSG v Man Utd. Penalty or not?

  19. #94

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Once again everyone is getting side tracked. All the penalty shouts were debateable.

    What is not is that dean gave the penalty after his lino flagged for it. Sent burnley players away from protesting. Camerasa had placed the ball and was ready to take it. Then dean changed his mind. That for me can not be explained.

    Everyone goes on about warnock complaining but what dean did was disprove those who say players shouldn't argue as the ref wont change his mind. Dean showed today that is not true and therefore arguing on the pitch is to be promoted surely.

  20. #95

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    There was no- and is no- debate 2 Burnley players handled the ball. Only explanation is after a few minutes thinking and Burnley players arguing- Dean changed his mind about it being deliberate. Not sure ive seen anything like it.

    No idea what the Burnley players said to him. Maybe something like "just imagine how funny warnocks reaction will be if you overturn this". Whatever it was it worked anyway.

  21. #96

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    PSG v Man Utd. Penalty or not?
    Don't know, haven't seen it.

  22. #97

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Let's be fair we doomed this year used up all our luck last year , competing with a Championship side ,no strikers of note, ( something Warnock was banging on about pre season ) .

    I think we've done wonderfully well to still be in with a shout, however narrow it is for us , with just a few games to go .

    Our players deserve a well earned break this summer .

  23. #98

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    PSG v Man Utd. Penalty or not?
    Just looked at it, for me it's not a penalty, the player couldn't get his arm out of the way.

  24. #99

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Father Dougal View Post
    There was no- and is no- debate 2 Burnley players handled the ball. Only explanation is after a few minutes thinking and Burnley players arguing- Dean changed his mind about it being deliberate. Not sure ive seen anything like it.

    No idea what the Burnley players said to him. Maybe something like "just imagine how funny warnocks reaction will be if you overturn this". Whatever it was it worked anyway.
    Sure we had one for us this season at home also. Ref gave pen against us but on consultation with linesman changed his mind. Sure it was this season.

  25. #100

    Re: FT: BURNLEY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    Sure we had one for us this season at home also. Ref gave pen against us but on consultation with linesman changed his mind. Sure it was this season.
    Huddersfield

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