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  1. #1

    Burnley first goal

    Just seem Motd
    Can someone explain How was burnley first goal not offside , it wasn’t mentioned
    Barnes (I think it was) was standing directly in front of Etheridge in an offside position

  2. #2

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by walinoz View Post
    Just seem Motd
    Can someone explain How was burnley first goal not offside , it wasn’t mentioned
    Barnes (I think it was) was standing directly in front of Etheridge in an offside position
    You can’t be offside receiving the ball directly from a corner.

    What about if you’re stood right in front of the keeper directly from a corner? Don’t know

  3. #3

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    You can’t be offside receiving the ball directly from a corner.

    What about if you’re stood right in front of the keeper directly from a corner? Don’t know
    I think it means he was offside when Wood headed it goalwards and he was blocking Etheridge. Not as the corner was taken - I think we had defenders between him and the goalie then anyway.

  4. #4
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    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue View Post
    You can’t be offside receiving the ball directly from a corner.
    yes you can, it is just very difficult to be offside because generally speaking most attacking players are behind the ball when it is played.

  5. #5

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    yes you can, it is just very difficult to be offside because generally speaking most attacking players are behind the ball when it is played.
    For offside, the ball has to move forwards.

  6. #6

    Re: Burnley first goal

    My thoughts exactly.

    And I was watching with my daughter's bf, who is a qualified ref - he agrees it was offside, but hard to spot in real time. VAR would pick it up. If only it was in use this season, we'd be mid-table.

  7. #7

    Re: Burnley first goal

    We'd be up in arms if we had scored that goal and it was disallowed for offisde - nothing wrong with it in my view.

  8. #8

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    We'd be up in arms if we had scored that goal and it was disallowed for offisde - nothing wrong with it in my view.
    Question

    1. Was he offside when the header was made ? Yes.
    2. Was he interfering with play ? Well he didn’t touch the ball, but he was stood right in front of the keeper.

    Debatable, like several others yesterday.
    What’s annoying is that NONE were given our way at all. Again.

    It’s hard to take. There was a lot of anger there yesterday.

  9. #9

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Question

    1. Was he offside when the header was made ? Yes.
    2. Was he interfering with play ? Well he didn’t touch the ball, but he was stood right in front of the keeper.

    Debatable, like several others yesterday.
    What’s annoying is that NONE were given our way at all. Again.

    It’s hard to take. There was a lot of anger there yesterday.
    He was offside as Wood headed it.
    He was obstructing Neil.
    He attempted to head the ball as it passed him

    VAR would correctly have disallowed it.

    I admit it was hard to see in real time but he was offside.
    If it had been a top 6 team and it mattered they would be discussing it now.

  10. #10

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Question

    1. Was he offside when the header was made ? Yes.
    2. Was he interfering with play ? Well he didn’t touch the ball, but he was stood right in front of the keeper.

    Debatable, like several others yesterday.
    What’s annoying is that NONE were given our way at all. Again.

    It’s hard to take. There was a lot of anger there yesterday.
    I've seen just the one of the controversial decisions so far and for me we need to look at ourselves far more than the officials for conceding from that corner - to me, it's a case of blaming the linesman rather than accepting our, big, deficiencies when defending set pieces this season.

    I accept your point though that, in recent games at least, the poor decisions in our matches have not evened themselves out, but based on the very little I've seen of yesterday's game so far, I can't say that applied yesterday.

  11. #11

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I've seen just the one of the controversial decisions so far and for me we need to look at ourselves far more than the officials for conceding from that corner - to me, it's a case of blaming the linesman rather than accepting our, big, deficiencies when defending set pieces this season.

    I accept your point though that, in recent games at least, the poor decisions in our matches have not evened themselves out, but based on the very little I've seen of yesterday's game so far, I can't say that applied yesterday.
    We can't defend like we have and get away with it and we can't surrender possession constantly with the hope that something will go our way. Yes we've been on the end of some debatable decisions of late, but nobody seems to be talking about the fact that we are constantly putting ourselves in these positions by giving the ball straight back or conceding possession. I know this might sound harsh, but the way we play is the equivalent to allowing a defect to travel to the final process of a production line and then blaming the person at the end of the line when he or she discovers the fault, knowing that there were atleast three or four opportunities to rectify things earlier in the process. I know that we all love the club but we should be a little more honest about things in my opinion.

  12. #12

    Re: Burnley first goal

    My understanding (which might be incorrect) is that if he is not involved in the move he is not offside.
    However he moved for the ball to try & head it so surely was involved ?
    Hard decision either way.
    One of the handballs & the foul on Gunnarsson however were more clear cut IMO.
    Officiating was poor again.

  13. #13

    Re: Burnley first goal

    If you aren't classed as offside 2 yards out in the centre of the goal and blocking the keeper then we may as well scrap the whole rule. Whether he can save the header or not is irrespective especially from the linesman's angle

  14. #14

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Against Burnley & Chelsea we conceded from corners because both times players were offside.
    If the ref/lino doesn"t give those offsides I can"t really see what we can do as if those players had not been offside I doubt we would have conceded either goal, ergo our defending of those corners would have been ok ?

  15. #15

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by headlight View Post
    Against Burnley & Chelsea we conceded from corners because both times players were offside.
    If the ref/lino doesn"t give those offsides I can"t really see what we can do as if those players had not been offside I doubt we would have conceded either goal, ergo our defending of those corners would have been ok ?
    We've conceded goals all season long from set pieces because we've allowed opponents to get telling first headers on to free kicks and corners. Alonso getting a near post flick on for Chelsea has nothing to do with what was going on at the far post and the same applied yesterday - it looks like we had Camarasa marking Wood while Sean Morrison stood about on the far post!

  16. #16

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    We've conceded goals all season long from set pieces because we've allowed opponents to get telling first headers on to free kicks and corners. Alonso getting a near post flick on for Chelsea has nothing to do with what was going on at the far post and the same applied yesterday - it looks like we had Camarasa marking Wood while Sean Morrison stood about on the far post!
    Yea I spotted that as the corner was about to be taken , why was camarasa on wood ,that’s a strange one I thought and I just had a feeling then he was gong to score

  17. #17

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    We've conceded goals all season long from set pieces because we've allowed opponents to get telling first headers on to free kicks and corners. Alonso getting a near post flick on for Chelsea has nothing to do with what was going on at the far post and the same applied yesterday - it looks like we had Camarasa marking Wood while Sean Morrison stood about on the far post!
    I was talking about Burnleys first goal being offside which is what the thread is about.
    I also mentioned that we couldn"t really have done anything about Chelsea"s goal as that was offside also.
    I do not dispute that over the course of the season our defending of set pieces has not been brilliant just that those 2 goals were offside & I don"t see how you can defend against offside goals being given ?

  18. #18

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by walinoz View Post
    Just seem Motd
    Can someone explain How was burnley first goal not offside , it wasn’t mentioned
    Barnes (I think it was) was standing directly in front of Etheridge in an offside position
    I pointed this out to my son when it happened. He's offside and he's blocking Ethridge view. So he is interfering with play. Offside, no goal.

    Harsh, maybe, still should have been disallowed.

  19. #19

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Any chance of any of you posting links showing goals disallowed in similar circumstances to yesterday's?

  20. #20

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I've seen just the one of the controversial decisions so far and for me we need to look at ourselves far more than the officials for conceding from that corner - to me, it's a case of blaming the linesman rather than accepting our, big, deficiencies when defending set pieces this season.

    I accept your point though that, in recent games at least, the poor decisions in our matches have not evened themselves out, but based on the very little I've seen of yesterday's game so far, I can't say that applied yesterday.
    We struggled at set pieces yesterday. However we haven’t since about November. At least, not when the rules are adhered to.

    I was going to start a new thread about how we missed Bamba and Patterson yesterday, but might as well talk about it here

    Burnley have 4-5 big guys and we had 1 maybe 2 ( although Manga didn’t win a header).

    Morrison did reasonably well but the rest of the side we beaten regularly by their bigger opponents.

    In recent weeks it’s probably helped us having Bamba out as Manga has done a much better job, but yesterday was a time when he and Patterson would really have helped.

    Makes me realise why Manga wasn’t used much at centre half in the Championship and has only been able to show his quality when playing against smaller sides who keep the ball in the floor.

    Saying all that, none of that would have mattered if the ref hadn’t given a. The free kick, where Taylor first pulled Peltier then fell over when Peltier pulled him back and b. The corner where Etheridge got nowhere near it, and after just watching on TV it’s a rare one where it was clearer live than on TV

    The ‘offside’ just compounds it.

  21. #21

    Re: Burnley first goal

    However, BT Sport pundit Robbie Savage raised an argument of offside against the decision and ex-ref Walton then spotted another infringement when analysing the decision.

    “When that ball came over for the corner kick, I don’t think it touched anybody and it should have been a goal kick,” he said.

    “Then, when the ball comes over, Barnes is stood in an offside position and the mere fact he makes a movement may have interfered with the goalkeeper’s line of sight.

    “Had there been an offside decision, I wouldn’t have been surprised. I think VAR would have drawn that to the referee’s attention. I think he was, his movement and his presence there is enough to say he’s interfering with his opponent.”

    The decision could prove to be significant for Cardiff’s season as Neil Warnock’s side entered the weekend five points from safety.

  22. #22

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by walinoz View Post
    However, BT Sport pundit Robbie Savage raised an argument of offside against the decision and ex-ref Walton then spotted another infringement when analysing the decision.

    “When that ball came over for the corner kick, I don’t think it touched anybody and it should have been a goal kick,” he said.

    “Then, when the ball comes over, Barnes is stood in an offside position and the mere fact he makes a movement may have interfered with the goalkeeper’s line of sight.

    “Had there been an offside decision, I wouldn’t have been surprised. I think VAR would have drawn that to the referee’s attention. I think he was, his movement and his presence there is enough to say he’s interfering with his opponent.”

    The decision could prove to be significant for Cardiff’s season as Neil Warnock’s side entered the weekend five points from safety.
    This is where I think we might have a valid argument about the first goal - I've watched it a few times now and it's hard to see which City player got a touch on the free kick for the corner to be given, the decision to penalise Peltier is also a pretty soft one.

    Just watched all of the second half on the club site and would say this about the controversial decisions.

    1. Handball by Mee from Arter's shot - Mee's hand is by his side when the ball hits it so that usually means no penalty, but he is a few yards away from Arter so I think it's in the some you get, some you don't category.
    2. Handball by Mee from Bennett's cross - definitely not a penalty for me. However, the referee clearly gives it and still thinks it's a penalty when confronted by the Burnley players, so what caused him to change his mind? Neil Warnock said after the game that the fourth official told him the linesman thought it was a penalty, so, again, if that is correct, why the changed decision? What you cannot see from the video is how the linesman reacted at the time of the incident, if he did think it was a penalty then, presumably, he flagged for one - if that was the case, there is no reason I can think of for the referee to change his decision. Although I think the correct decision was given in the end, City should feel aggrieved that the referee changed his mind like he did - the fact that there has been no explanation from Mr Dean or the authorities as to the reasoning behind the change of mind does not help the situation at all.
    3. Foul by Taylor on Gunnarsson. A bit of a strange one this because the players concerned are not in typical positions for a penalty shout, but it looks like a foul to me. That said, it was only after seeing it slowed down and from different angles that I came to this conclusion because I couldn't see that Taylor had done anything wrong when I watched it for the first time at normal speed.

    For me, City were on the wrong end of a few diabolical decisions against Chelsea, but I don't think any of the major ones yesterday fell into that category. However, in a match as important as yesterday's was, it must be a reason for concern that all of the big decisions went the way of one team - I'm not suggesting Mike Dean was corrupt or openly biased, more inept because having now watched most of the ninety minutes, his overall handling of the game was not up to the standards you would expect in a Premier League match.

    People have talked about our winner against Brighton and Lee Mason's changed penalty decision against Huddersfield as examples of where luck has been on our side, but it seems to me that we've had far more times when we've had cause to criticise officials for wrong decisions with good cause than we have to praise them for coming to our rescue. As I've said before on here, I side with cock up over conspiracy when it comes to official's decisions, but they've certainly gone against us more than for us in our two seasons at this level.

  23. #23
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    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    People have talked about our winner against Brighton and Lee Mason's changed penalty decision against Huddersfield as examples of where luck has been on our side, but it seems to me that we've had far more times when we've had cause to criticise officials for wrong decisions with good cause than we have to praise them for coming to our rescue. As I've said before on here, I side with cock up over conspiracy when it comes to official's decisions, but they've certainly gone against us more than for us in our two seasons at this level.
    My feelings exactly.

    Over the season we have good reason to complain about officials' decisions and it will not 'even itself out'.

    That doesn't excuse the regular mistakes at both ends of the pitch (although the effort and commitment has been there for all but a handful of games).

    When the EPL hand out the end-of-season award for 'Manager Most Hard Done By' it will be a close fight between Warnock and Wagner.

  24. #24

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    We can't defend like we have and get away with it and we can't surrender possession constantly with the hope that something will go our way. Yes we've been on the end of some debatable decisions of late, but nobody seems to be talking about the fact that we are constantly putting ourselves in these positions by giving the ball straight back or conceding possession. I know this might sound harsh, but the way we play is the equivalent to allowing a defect to travel to the final process of a production line and then blaming the person at the end of the line when he or she discovers the fault, knowing that there were atleast three or four opportunities to rectify things earlier in the process. I know that we all love the club but we should be a little more honest about things in my opinion.
    That’s a strange analogy Dan.
    This is a thread about offside for their goal.

    There’s been plenty said elsewhere about our ability to keep the ball.

    It’s certainly not the case of us ‘not being honest’.

    Ironically it was the 3-4 decisions by one person that led to the goal and that wasn’t a City player.

    And that one person is usually one who you can rely on

  25. #25

    Re: Burnley first goal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    That’s a strange analogy Dan.
    This is a thread about offside for their goal.

    There’s been plenty said elsewhere about our ability to keep the ball.

    It’s certainly not the case of us ‘not being honest’.

    Ironically it was the 3-4 decisions by one person that led to the goal and that wasn’t a City player.

    And that one person is usually one who you can rely on
    Without getting 'David Brent' ( i know that i'm in that kind of territory) I'll elaborate. We allow pressure, we give the ball away thus inviting positions where there could be contentious decisions. If we were better at keeping the ball and alleviating the pressure from our defenders by reducing the amount of set pieces and attacks then we wouldn't find ourselves in these positions as much as we do. Honest footballers and managers will be thinking that, i know that i would, how can we prevent these situations or minimise them. Most fans will look for a get out, they're biased and that's fair enough, but the reality is that we can't rely on Referees in order for games to go our way, we have to try and make it certain, that may sound unfair but it's the reality. This notion that the bigger teams get the decisions is debatable although there may well be some truth in it. If you're in the ascendancy, pressing, attacking, stretching the opposition and forcing mistakes then the referee is going to be more inclined to go with the team who are making the opposition react, the ref is being pushed into that position. I may be wrong, but i'm of the opinion that we have the opportunity to make the difference on the pitch by not conceding the ball and by giving our defenders the chance to recover and get organised. We don't give ourselves a chance at times and that's nothing to do with the Officials in my opinion.

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