This fella was outrageous!
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This fella was outrageous!
Best player ever?
Which probably makes him more impressive. I saw his documentary the other day - he used to play on a Sunday then do cocaine and party until Wednesday then start to detox ready for the next Sunday. He was one of the best of all time on a comedown
Imagine if he'd lived an athlete's life like Cristiano Ronaldo does now
Yeah, back then sides would defend well for about seventy five minutes, but then their desperation for a fag and/or a pint would take over and they'd have to go for a quick slurp and/or puff when they thought no one was looking. Scores like 14-14 were commonplace as opponents cashed in while defenders were indulging themselves on the touchline - change "tactically inept" to "tactically naive" and you've come up with a full house of internet cliches there.
Granted, they are both exceptional players, but I think it could be convincingly argued that Messi and Ronaldo's goalscoring records over a period of seasons offer proof that the standard of defending at the top level is not as good as it once was. Furthermore, I'd say that the modern day liking for defenders who can play out from the back has led to a decrease in what I would call out and out defenders.
At City, we all look at Lee Peltier and list the things he doesn't do as a modern day full back with all of the aspects besides defending that job entails, but I would argue strongly that Peltier is the best out and out defender at the club. Players like Peltier aren't fashionable these days, so there aren't as many of them around whereas back in the times you are rubbishing they were the norm - in my view, the quest for more athleticism, which I agree with in so many ways, can lead to a decline in specialism.
The problem with this argument is that if Burrachaga misses in 86 and Higuain scores in 14 then the situations are reversed with neither Messi nor Maradona putting a foot in a different place.
Robson-Kanu went further in an international tournament than Giggs. Who is the better player?
I love Diego, I think Messi is the only player to come near him. In my opinion, he's surpassed Diego now and I respect anyone who thinks differently - but this shouldn't be the reason.
Completely agree with this.
Although the world cup is a superb competition it's definitely below standards of the champions league.
I don't think you can exclude someone becausel they didn't win what someone else did. As you could just say Maradona isn't as good as didn't win the European cup.
Messi goalscoring record is unbelievable and whilst you could make the arguement he has had some of the best players in world play beside him, on the flip side he still stands head and shoulders above those players.
Henry and Suarez were probably 2 of the best players the PL has seen and Messi is still the focal point, same with Neymar
Great player.
However, his and Ronaldinho's idol was Rivelinho.
He must have been some player!!
Last edited by JDerrida; 20-04-19 at 20:35. Reason: Spelling
Rivelinho was my idol too. Unfortunately he came to prominence at the 1970 World Cup when I should have been revising for my O Levels. Ah well, he was worth it and looked the part to, with his Zapata moustache and ability to bend the ball like no other at that time.
The thing is though that what he talks about didn't happen did it and, having seen enough of the 86 side to be confident in what I say, it seems to me that Maradona won the World Cup with a weaker Argentina team than most of the ones Messi's played in during the Finals of that tournament.
In Maradona's day, international football was the pinnacle of the game where the best players earned the right to be called great, it's arguable whether that is still the case today, but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored completely, which is what those calling Messi the best ever are, in effect, doing.
It didn't happen but the point is that it didn't happen without any input from Messi or Maradona.
Bob, I've seen you describe George Best as the greatest player from the British Isles. Can I ask why you don't give it to Bobby Charlton, the World Cup winner?
Also:
which is what those calling Messi the best ever are, in effect, doing. = which is what SOME OF THOSE CALLING Messi the best ever are, in effect doing
No, anyone saying Messi is the best ever is, in effect, ignoring what happens in international football.
Fair point about George Best, but I would say that the criteria whereby you judge British international football players should be a bit different on the world stage because otherwise you're, essentially, limiting yourself to eleven Englishmen, whereas with the greatest player ever, nearly all of the realistic contenders have played in sides which have won trophies in major international competitions.