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Thread: A question of identity.

  1. #1

    A question of identity.

    Interesting article this - I think the writer is spot on as well.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ndation-widget

    As far as City's identity is concerned, I can think of plenty of things that it isn't (e.g. encourages youth and plays the game the "right way"), but precious little that it is.

  2. #2

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Interesting article this - I think the writer is spot on as well.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ndation-widget

    As far as City's identity is concerned, I can think of plenty of things that it isn't (e.g. encourages youth and plays the game the "right way"), but precious little that it is.
    Identity and style of play may be two different things, of course...

  3. #3

    Re: A question of identity.

    I know I got challenged on it here the other day but I dont see how any club our size can have any long or even medium term success without having a discernible identity.

    Warnock has come in and worked absolute miracles to turn the club around from facing the abyss, but I guarantee within the next couple of years fans would start to get fed up when we start to stagnate.

    After that comes the job of replacing him. Is there anyone at our club besides Warnock who will understand what they're looking for when it comes to a replacement?

    Now even if we do find someone who has the same principles as Warnock, I dont think there would be many who would argue that part of Warnock's charm is his experience and man management.

    For any club to truly go forward in this day and age the whole club needs to be singing of the same hymn sheet and worryingly this is not the case at this club.

    I listened to Graham Potter saying the other day that unless they develop something different about themselves with regards to their identity then how can they avoid becoming just another club. I think he's right. It was far easier for Martinez to do this that Potter too.

    When Martinez played a possession based football it was quite unique in the championship but now it's the norm.

    One of the ways having an identity has helped Swansea this season is that they have been able to utilise their academy prospects which remained faithful to a possession based approach when their first team veered away under Monk, Brad Bobbly etc.

    Contrast this with us. We have an academy who try to play like Barcelona and Ajax through the ages and they are then asked to kick the ball into row z if they ever break in to the first team.

    If you look into how Norwich have put building blocks of their success in place then you'll see how having a continual progressive identity will help prevent a club spunking money against the wall and will while not fail proof will surely give a club the best chance to succeed.

  4. #4

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I know I got challenged on it here the other day but I dont see how any club our size can have any long or even medium term success without having a discernible identity.

    Warnock has come in and worked absolute miracles to turn the club around from facing the abyss, but I guarantee within the next couple of years fans would start to get fed up when we start to stagnate.

    After that comes the job of replacing him. Is there anyone at our club besides Warnock who will understand what they're looking for when it comes to a replacement?

    Now even if we do find someone who has the same principles as Warnock, I dont think there would be many who would argue that part of Warnock's charm is his experience and man management.

    For any club to truly go forward in this day and age the whole club needs to be singing of the same hymn sheet and worryingly this is not the case at this club.

    I listened to Graham Potter saying the other day that unless they develop something different about themselves with regards to their identity then how can they avoid becoming just another club. I think he's right. It was far easier for Martinez to do this that Potter too.

    When Martinez played a possession based football it was quite unique in the championship but now it's the norm.

    One of the ways having an identity has helped Swansea this season is that they have been able to utilise their academy prospects which remained faithful to a possession based approach when their first team veered away under Monk, Brad Bobbly etc.

    Contrast this with us. We have an academy who try to play like Barcelona and Ajax through the ages and they are then asked to kick the ball into row z if they ever break in to the first team.

    If you look into how Norwich have put building blocks of their success in place then you'll see how having a continual progressive identity will help prevent a club spunking money against the wall and will while not fail proof will surely give a club the best chance to succeed.
    I really liked the Jorge Jesus rumour - an absolute nutcase in the vein of Warnock but widely regarded to be a tactical genius and with a reputation for developing promising players into multi-million pound superstars, whilst getting his teams playing 100mph with goals galore.. yes please.

  5. #5

    Re: A question of identity.

    As Warnock expressed before the season started are the team we need to emulate off the pitch but did he mean on it too ?

    I can’t say I like watching Burnley but I guess it is like watching a Warnock team when it is your own team and you buy into the “playing for the shirt” style of football !

    Personally I think they are far more defensive, cynical and clinical than us but have strikers who not only do the hard work but are able to take their chances when they come along to steal the points.

    It also gets mentioned every game , we are a team who play for the set pieces to score our goals but Burnley are the true kings of that domain.

  6. #6

    Re: A question of identity.

    Struck a chord with me for different reasons. Not so much about identity but more about the futility of chasing the impossible dream. Other than the once in a lifetime Leicester scenario what chance have any club outside the top 6 got of ‘winning’ in the future without the intervention of a sugar daddy owner?

    Next to zero is the answer.

  7. #7

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    Struck a chord with me for different reasons. Not so much about identity but more about the futility of chasing the impossible dream. Other than the once in a lifetime Leicester scenario what chance have any club outside the top 6 got of ‘winning’ in the future without the intervention of a sugar daddy owner?

    Next to zero is the answer.
    But I think it's a fair point to say that in the absence of any realistic chance of winning, or even finishing in the top quarter, of the league you are competing in, things like what is being described as an identity for your club become more important.

    My attitude last season was that I could take the attritional type of game we played because it was achieving the desired result of promotion, but, if we were ever to establish ourselves in this division to the extent that we would, in effect, start each season contesting for a finishing position of, say, between seventh and fourteenth, then I would want to see more football being played for my season ticket money.

  8. #8

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    But I think it's a fair point to say that in the absence of any realistic chance of winning, or even finishing in the top quarter, of the league you are competing in, things like what is being described as an identity for your club become more important.

    My attitude last season was that I could take the attritional type of game we played because it was achieving the desired result of promotion, but, if we were ever to establish ourselves in this division to the extent that we would, in effect, start each season contesting for a finishing position of, say, between seventh and fourteenth, then I would want to see more football being played for my season ticket money.
    Agreed on that but it sounds like you’ve been conditioned (as have we all by the way) into the lofty ambition of finishing 7th and being happy with it. You add the extra caveat of needing to be entertained for your season ticket money, which is admirable but not essential for everyone.

    How many successive years of finishing 7th could you take before you’d want more than entertainment and 7th place for your money?

    15? 10? Less?

  9. #9

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    Agreed on that but it sounds like you’ve been conditioned (as have we all by the way) into the lofty ambition of finishing 7th and being happy with it. You add the extra caveat of needing to be entertained for your season ticket money, which is admirable but not essential for everyone.

    How many successive years of finishing 7th could you take before you’d want more than entertainment and 7th place for your money?

    15? 10? Less?
    We can look at the examples of Stoke and Charlton for a rough answer. Their fans got bored of being where they were and wanted more.

  10. #10

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    We can look at the examples of Stoke and Charlton for a rough answer. Their fans got bored of being where they were and wanted more.
    I can see their fans now sat in a rocking chair with their pipe and slippers talking to their grandchildren about those halcyon days when we were the 7th (not 8th, not 9th, not even 10th).... THE 7TH best team in the Premier League..... Oh they were great times.

  11. #11

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    Agreed on that but it sounds like you’ve been conditioned (as have we all by the way) into the lofty ambition of finishing 7th and being happy with it. You add the extra caveat of needing to be entertained for your season ticket money, which is admirable but not essential for everyone.

    How many successive years of finishing 7th could you take before you’d want more than entertainment and 7th place for your money?

    15? 10? Less?
    I've always said that the novelty of watching City play in the Premier League would wear off pretty quickly and by about our third or fourth season I'd be bored by it. Of course, it's easy for me to say that when I've not been in the situation yet, but I honestly don't feel I'd be prepared to hang around to watch a competition where finishing seventh was the limit of your realistic ambitions for too long - especially if we were still playing the sort of attritional stuff I mentioned earlier.

  12. #12

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I've always said that the novelty of watching City play in the Premier League would wear off pretty quickly and by about our third or fourth season I'd be bored by it. Of course, it's easy for me to say that when I've not been in the situation yet, but I honestly don't feel I'd be prepared to hang around to watch a competition where finishing seventh was the limit of your realistic ambitions for too long - especially if we were still playing the sort of attritional stuff I mentioned earlier.
    So, what’s the point of playing in The Championship then? What’s the end game for you, or have you wasted 60 years on this lot 😂?

    What does a Utopian Cardiff City look like for you?
    Last edited by StraightOuttaCanton; 23-04-19 at 10:37. Reason: .

  13. #13

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton View Post
    So, what’s the point of playing in The Championship then? What’s the end game for you, or have you wasted 60 years on this lot ��?

    What does a Utopian Cardiff City look like for you?
    It was to see Cardiff City play in the top flight because I just missed that with my first game being in 1963, but I wouldn't be too bothered now if I spent the rest of my days watching us play good football in the Championship because I really like that division.

    The one thing I've still not seen is us being genuinely competitive against the best sides in the country to the extent that we could turn one or two of them over a season. With one glorious exception, it's been pretty soul destroying seeing us take on the best - maybe my attitude to the Premier League would be different if that situation were to change?

  14. #14

    Re: A question of identity.

    I once met a bloke who supports Worcester City, somewhere in the English Midland League. Said he used to be a Baggie but got so sick of the Prem that he went back to local, grassroots football and he now enjoys his sport again. One man's Utopia is another man's Hell, it seems.
    I'd just like to see a club that was profitable, run on sound business lines, with a policy of developing players from within, playing a technical passing kind of football which is the best way to compete at top level, and with strong local links. If it's in the Prem then even better, though not at the price of bankrupting the club. The new Euro Superleague will be in place soon and then the top clubs will be out of sight completely.

  15. #15

    Re: A question of identity.

    I bet Man City fans are approaching the boredom stage.
    How many times can you see your side kill off the cannon fodder in the 1st 10 minutes of the game and not get bored?
    They never seem to have an atmosphere and they have hardly anything to moan about most games.

  16. #16

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    I know I got challenged on it here the other day but I dont see how any club our size can have any long or even medium term success without having a discernible identity.

    Warnock has come in and worked absolute miracles to turn the club around from facing the abyss, but I guarantee within the next couple of years fans would start to get fed up when we start to stagnate.

    After that comes the job of replacing him. Is there anyone at our club besides Warnock who will understand what they're looking for when it comes to a replacement?

    Now even if we do find someone who has the same principles as Warnock, I dont think there would be many who would argue that part of Warnock's charm is his experience and man management.

    For any club to truly go forward in this day and age the whole club needs to be singing of the same hymn sheet and worryingly this is not the case at this club.

    I listened to Graham Potter saying the other day that unless they develop something different about themselves with regards to their identity then how can they avoid becoming just another club. I think he's right. It was far easier for Martinez to do this that Potter too.

    When Martinez played a possession based football it was quite unique in the championship but now it's the norm.

    One of the ways having an identity has helped Swansea this season is that they have been able to utilise their academy prospects which remained faithful to a possession based approach when their first team veered away under Monk, Brad Bobbly etc.

    Contrast this with us. We have an academy who try to play like Barcelona and Ajax through the ages and they are then asked to kick the ball into row z if they ever break in to the first team.

    If you look into how Norwich have put building blocks of their success in place then you'll see how having a continual progressive identity will help prevent a club spunking money against the wall and will while not fail proof will surely give a club the best chance to succeed.
    Listening to "Blakys boot" a few weeks ago, the identity of Cardiff city is defined by their fans. They want hard working crafters, straight lines (Easy to understand football), and short term (one game of the time) commitment. They dont want any of that tippy happy bullshit. I was thinking at the time "Tonteg bluebird" is the carnation of the Cardiff fan, and if fans define identity it might take a few generations before any sustainable identity is formed.
    Message to all Cardiff City fans!: Watch more Dutch and German fotball

  17. #17

    Re: A question of identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Interesting article this - I think the writer is spot on as well.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ndation-widget

    As far as City's identity is concerned, I can think of plenty of things that it isn't (e.g. encourages youth and plays the game the "right way"), but precious little that it is.
    Being sh*thouse is

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