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Thread: Tan's Comments On Warnock

  1. #31

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    This time we haven't got Kenwyn Jones,LaFonda to name just two that couldn't even cut it at championship level.I think the city will spend and I think we'll have a go as well.I've a feeling we won't be taking chances on fat pie eating types either.
    What about Madine,Tomlin,Bogle,OíKeefe,Connelly etc?

  2. #32

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Mixed really, the support for Neil Warnock staying among members of the squad makes me think any replacement could have a difficult time getting the group to play for him, but, if we are going to be spending like most relegated sides do on a return to the Championship, then I've no great faith in our manager using that money effectively based on our work in the transfer market over the past year and a half.
    Providing we can recoup a decent proportion of what we wasted on ineffective transfers, I'd come down - just - on the side of positive. It will take some doing to re-energize the squad after this season, and he's probably as good as anyone to do that. I also hope our 'transfer committee' can't be any worse than the last couple of seasons..

  3. #33

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto13 View Post
    What about Madine,Tomlin,Bogle,OíKeefe,Connelly etc?
    They most likely aren't on wages Jones and let fondre were.
    I feel we will be better equipped this time after relegation, previously we chucked money on players with high wages last time and when we were relegated we needed to sell.
    This time we have spent hardly anything and all the players we have played in the championship before so know the league and can't see them being on as high wages as players were when relegated last time

  4. #34

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Warnock has the best record in the world for getting teams promoted from the championship to the premier league. Heís already here. Keep him, back him, both at fan level and board level, let him go for his world record of promotions, and if we go back up, learn from this seasons mistakes. Disruption now could spell disaster.
    Well said

  5. #35

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Also it is important to remember, that Neil changed his tact in our promotion season around christmas time after he realised we had a real chance of Automatic. I remember the first half of the season he played pretty open and attacking football, with some big margin wins. In essence I believe when he has the players and resources, I do not believe he is as defensive at heart as some people believe.

  6. #36

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Warnock has the best record in the world for getting teams promoted from the championship to the premier league. Heís already here. Keep him, back him, both at fan level and board level, let him go for his world record of promotions, and if we go back up, learn from this seasons mistakes. Disruption now could spell disaster.
    Good post

  7. #37

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Give me strength .

    It was reported that we were, effectively, debt free because we only owed money our owner.
    Its not a money tree though ,all one is saying lets not repeat the error ,however solvent we might think we are

  8. #38

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Give me strength .

    It was reported that we were, effectively, debt free because we only owed money our owner.
    You must be alone in thinking that buying players will not create debt. Tan has spent a lot of money reducing debt ( or even eliminating it) ; surely he can't be expected to invest more to create the debt that has taken so long to reduce (or eliminate). I must confess I hadn't realised debt had been totally eliminated but will take your word for it.

  9. #39

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Its not a money tree though ,all one is saying lets not repeat the error ,however solvent we might think we are
    TOBW has been in a massive pissy since we got relegated.. in particular regard to our spending, it's quite amusing to behold really, always thought he was more of a sensible type.

    I fully expect his next quiz to be, '5 decades of Cardiff City NOT SPENDING **** ALL THE ****ING AMATEURS DESPITE GETTING OVER 31,000 CROWDS PER GAME - 'PLUCKY LITTLE ****ING CARDIFF' MY BASTARD ARSE SACK THE ****ING BOARD AND **** ****ING NEIL WARNOCK!!'

  10. #40

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Steve Bruce would argue that record.

    Sean Dyche too. 2 promotions in 4 full seasons in the Championship.
    Jokanovic has done it twice too....I'd happily see him in charge.

  11. #41

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    Steve Bruce would argue that record.

    Sean Dyche too. 2 promotions in 4 full seasons in the Championship.
    Malky wanted Dyche as his assistant but he turned us down, pity we didnít appoint him instead of Malky?

  12. #42

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    I think it's a massive positive myself. What he's done since being here is virtually miraculous. I also don't fully agree with the idea he's been ropey in the transfer market. 10 million doesn't buy you premier league players, the reids and murphys were always going to be gambles, but with his budget he had no other choice. I'd imagine the likes of Murphy and Reid will either be sold for close to what we paid for them or will be major factors in a good campaign for us. It may be overplaced optimism, but I think Warnock can take us straight back up. On a slightly soppy note, after the whole red nonsense etc, I feel like the bloke has given me my club back. So I'd be delighted to see him stay
    I agree, you donít get much for 10 million these days. Hell, we might even get back the cash blown in madine! Iím pretty sure Murphy and Reid will either do very well next season or move on for what we paid. I recall maCormack going for 11 million a few years ago and heís guff in comparison. Solid squad, will find things much easier in the championship so why not let Neil work his usual magic.

  13. #43

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    I agree, you donít get much for 10 million these days. Hell, we might even get back the cash blown in madine! Iím pretty sure Murphy and Reid will either do very well next season or move on for what we paid. I recall maCormack going for 11 million a few years ago and heís guff in comparison. Solid squad, will find things much easier in the championship so why not let Neil work his usual magic.
    Iíd love a player akin to Ross McCormack in his pomp here now!!

  14. #44

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    I agree, you don’t get much for 10 million these days. Hell, we might even get back the cash blown in madine! I’m pretty sure Murphy and Reid will either do very well next season or move on for what we paid. I recall maCormack going for 11 million a few years ago and he’s guff in comparison. Solid squad, will find things much easier in the championship so why not let Neil work his usual magic.
    Depends what you mean by that; if we're talking about a player in the middle of their contract who has good relationship with current club, especially if that club is UK based, and current club isn't in financial difficulty then you're not likely to get a premier league quality player for as little as £10million these days. However, we know there are loads of players who fall outside that narrow band, especially if you can offer a massive jump in weekly wages a la Juve. 3 of Liverpool's back 5 tonight have cost £6 million in transfer fees and they seem to be doing ok.

    Based on where we were as club and we were always likely to overspend on individual players. Question should be whether we could have spent the money we did more astutely and whether we're now going to take a proper look at a scouting programme and youth development pathway so we're not always having to spend to improve our squad.

  15. #45

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by SuisseBluebird View Post
    Jim White on Talksport this morning confirming a conversation with Vincent Tan where he implied he is happy for Warnock to stay another season and go for a record breaking ninth promotion.

    So appears the choice is Warnock's on whether he stays or goes.

    Thoughts?
    Iím not sure that it is the right decision but certainly far better than going into the new season with the wrong person.
    Anything other than a good start will put enormous pressure on NW and could result in a new Manager before the January window.

    I do feel that we need to see changes in players and the way that we play.

  16. #46

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I can remember when we took another tact and it nearly destroyed us , we ended up with Slade /Trollope era repairing taking years moving overpriced, over indulged , over hyped players out ,I'm happy with caution if it saves and steadies our clubs existence.
    I agree entirely and I think Bolton would too. It's easy to spend gambling on staying up but the potential consequences when it all goes wrong could cost us our club:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...eague-15004538

  17. #47

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17 View Post
    TOBW has been in a massive pissy since we got relegated.. in particular regard to our spending, it's quite amusing to behold really, always thought he was more of a sensible type.

    I fully expect his next quiz to be, '5 decades of Cardiff City NOT SPENDING **** ALL THE ****ING AMATEURS DESPITE GETTING OVER 31,000 CROWDS PER GAME - 'PLUCKY LITTLE ****ING CARDIFF' MY BASTARD ARSE SACK THE ****ING BOARD AND **** ****ING NEIL WARNOCK!!'
    Right, let's see what I'm actually saying as opposed to what you and others assume I'm saying.

    In my only blog piece I've written since our relegation, I didn't even mention spending plans for next season. All I did was advocate that what would be a fairly modest sum be spent on someone with the requisite knowledge and experience to study things like our youth development and recruitment and suggest how things could be improved because we have an Academy that does not produce first team footballers and a transfer committee that has not signed a single player on a permanent basis in the past eighteen months who would be regarded as an automatic first choice in the side, despite the fact that we have spent something like 40 million pounds in transfer fees during that time (this does not include the 15 million fee for Emiliano Sala).

    Apart from that, I've made some messageboard contributions and in not one of those have I advocated anything like the sort of transfer spending seen by the likes of Fulham and some of the clubs with financial problems that have been mentioned in this thread. Indeed, in the first reply to the OP in this thread I spoke of how, if he continues as our manager, I would be wary of giving Neil Warnock substantial transfer funds this summer because of his record in that department since 2017.

    It's worth remembering what was I believe to be a prevailing view on here this time last year. The feeling then was that we should not break the bank during the summer in a repeat of what happened in 2013, far better to err on the side of caution and then accept the probable relegation which followed in the knowledge that we'd be a stable club with the opportunity to have a real go at promotion the following season.

    Go back a year before that and there was no talk whatsoever of buying our way to promotion - people accepted that approach and were all in favour of spending within our means. In the event, that approach was working so well that it was only in January with the six million pound spent on Gary Madine as promotion began to look more like a probability that we started behaving like most would expect a promotion chasing side to behave when it comes to transfer expenditure - until then, we had been a club that hoped for a promotion rather than expected one in the manner that so many in the Championship do.

    When it comes to transfer expenditure, our policy during the summer of 2017 was exactly right for the type of club we were then. As for the summer of 2018, it's more arguable whether there should have been more ambitious shown, but, as I said, I believe the prevailing view on here at least was that the club's approach was thought to be the right one.

    However, let's look at what has changed since the summer of 2017. First of all, promotion has resulted in far, far better income than had been budgeted for. I don't have the exact figures to hand and people better versed in football finances than me may want to put me right here, but it seems to me that promotion will have netted us around 200 million pounds in terms of TV money and parachute payments. Furthermore, a bonus of promotion was that the planned conversion of nearly 70 million pounds of club debt into equity by Vincent Tan, which had been prohibited under Football League rules, was able to be completed at this time last year.

    So, in essence, Cardiff City Football Club has benefited to the tune of around a quarter of a billion pounds compared to where we were in 2017 and where we were budgeted to be in the summer of 2019 - even if I've got those figures wrong and we are only benefiting by half of what I say, the financial landscape for the club has changed hugely in the last two years.

    On top of that, our average home attendance in 16/17 was 16,564, this season it was 31,413 - I make that a rise of 89.6%. Now, I'm not stupid enough to think that, even with Aston Villa 2017 type spending this summer, we will average anything like that next season, but why should a figure 50% up on 16/17 not be achievable?

    I don't care what people think of me using the term "plucky little Cardiff City", I'm going to keep on using it because it sums up a mentality that says "isn't it brilliant how we can do the same as other clubs that are far bigger than us", when the truth is that, for now at least, we are on the same footing as these "far bigger" clubs and we can match them in so many ways. The sort of small team mentality being portrayed by some in this thread would, in my opinion, see us slowly revert to the sort of club we were in 16/17 where we were, basically, hoping to get lucky - there is an opportunity now which may not be here even this time next year, but it needs to be grasped, not feared.

  18. #48

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    Positive.

    Relegation is a terrible time to start tearing apart what has worked well for us. We should concentrate on stability, adding to what Warnock and his team have achieved.

    He himself has already suggested he would only see out his contract, as such it gives us a season to look to the future and bring in the right replacement while still having an excellent manager for the level we are at. One who knows the players, one who brought us success out of a period of turmoil.
    this is where i worry

  19. #49

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Llandaff Blue View Post
    I just hope he realises how good Murphy and Reid can be in the championship and letís them play football.

    I donít mind him staying, but with our midfield needing serious rebuilding I worry what type of player the club will idenitify. We cannot have another 11 full of grafters and triers, we need someone who can pass the ball
    THIS

  20. #50

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Here are my thoughts from a week or two back, in another post regarding Warnock:

    Stay! Careful what you wish for. There are plenty of clubs with supporters around that think their clubs are actually better than they are. Off the top of my head, Charlton with Curbishley. They were disappointed at finishing (I think) 8th and then 10th in the Prem and thought they were destined for bigger and better things, and wanted him gone. Look what's happened to them. Plenty of West Brom supporters on 606 and Talksport phone ins wanted Pulis gone. I remember Bolton fans moaning about Big Sam and his tactics on the same phone ins too. Goodness knows where they will end up next season. Same with QPR supporters and Holloway, they've taken a huge step back this season. Know a couple of Ipswich town fans who were desperate for McCarthy to go. Where have they ended up this season?

    There have been plenty of people on here saying we'd be better off with young Danny Cowley from Lincoln, as manager. Worst case scenario? Cowley is totally out of his depth as a Championship manager and is only given limited funds to purchase players by Tan, and gets in young inexperienced National League, League one and League two players, who can't quite cut it at Championship level. We struggle so with eight games to go, Tan decides to give Cowley the old heave-ho and bring in an old experienced head. Step forth Steve McLaren. Where does the 'Wally With the Brolly' take us? Down to League One , that's where!

    Likewise, a lot of people have said, let's get Jokanović in. His teams play exciting attacking football. But they also ship in a lot of goals. yes, City score two or three most games, but they also ship in three or four goals a game after Jokanović replaces our entire defence. Seeing as we are in trouble Xmas time, Tan decides to bring in a tried and trusted old head, in Harry Rednap. 'arry wheels and deals during the January window, just like the frustrated second hand car dealer he really wants to be. And guess what? He can't stop our slump and down we go! Massively in debt too!

    So, let's stick with Warnock, eh? He knows his way around the Championship, and has what it takes to get us promoted! Four times he has been promoted from where we are, so let's give him another attempt at fifth. I think it's the way forward....

  21. #51

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Mixed really, the support for Neil Warnock staying among members of the squad makes me think any replacement could have a difficult time getting the group to play for him, but, if we are going to be spending like most relegated sides do on a return to the Championship, then I've no great faith in our manager using that money effectively based on our work in the transfer market over the past year and a half.
    Agree with this 100% (for once)

  22. #52

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Blooburd View Post
    Agree with this 100% (for once)
    Well, the four most important players in the squad wouldn't give a shit if Warwick went. Im sure two of them would be happy. The fifth might. But what is he to do..

  23. #53

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Right, let's see what I'm actually saying as opposed to what you and others assume I'm saying.

    In my only blog piece I've written since our relegation, I didn't even mention spending plans for next season. All I did was advocate that what would be a fairly modest sum be spent on someone with the requisite knowledge and experience to study things like our youth development and recruitment and suggest how things could be improved because we have an Academy that does not produce first team footballers and a transfer committee that has not signed a single player on a permanent basis in the past eighteen months who would be regarded as an automatic first choice in the side, despite the fact that we have spent something like 40 million pounds in transfer fees during that time (this does not include the 15 million fee for Emiliano Sala).

    Apart from that, I've made some messageboard contributions and in not one of those have I advocated anything like the sort of transfer spending seen by the likes of Fulham and some of the clubs with financial problems that have been mentioned in this thread. Indeed, in the first reply to the OP in this thread I spoke of how, if he continues as our manager, I would be wary of giving Neil Warnock substantial transfer funds this summer because of his record in that department since 2017.

    It's worth remembering what was I believe to be a prevailing view on here this time last year. The feeling then was that we should not break the bank during the summer in a repeat of what happened in 2013, far better to err on the side of caution and then accept the probable relegation which followed in the knowledge that we'd be a stable club with the opportunity to have a real go at promotion the following season.

    Go back a year before that and there was no talk whatsoever of buying our way to promotion - people accepted that approach and were all in favour of spending within our means. In the event, that approach was working so well that it was only in January with the six million pound spent on Gary Madine as promotion began to look more like a probability that we started behaving like most would expect a promotion chasing side to behave when it comes to transfer expenditure - until then, we had been a club that hoped for a promotion rather than expected one in the manner that so many in the Championship do.

    When it comes to transfer expenditure, our policy during the summer of 2017 was exactly right for the type of club we were then. As for the summer of 2018, it's more arguable whether there should have been more ambitious shown, but, as I said, I believe the prevailing view on here at least was that the club's approach was thought to be the right one.

    However, let's look at what has changed since the summer of 2017. First of all, promotion has resulted in far, far better income than had been budgeted for. I don't have the exact figures to hand and people better versed in football finances than me may want to put me right here, but it seems to me that promotion will have netted us around 200 million pounds in terms of TV money and parachute payments. Furthermore, a bonus of promotion was that the planned conversion of nearly 70 million pounds of club debt into equity by Vincent Tan, which had been prohibited under Football League rules, was able to be completed at this time last year.

    So, in essence, Cardiff City Football Club has benefited to the tune of around a quarter of a billion pounds compared to where we were in 2017 and where we were budgeted to be in the summer of 2019 - even if I've got those figures wrong and we are only benefiting by half of what I say, the financial landscape for the club has changed hugely in the last two years.

    On top of that, our average home attendance in 16/17 was 16,564, this season it was 31,413 - I make that a rise of 89.6%. Now, I'm not stupid enough to think that, even with Aston Villa 2017 type spending this summer, we will average anything like that next season, but why should a figure 50% up on 16/17 not be achievable?

    I don't care what people think of me using the term "plucky little Cardiff City", I'm going to keep on using it because it sums up a mentality that says "isn't it brilliant how we can do the same as other clubs that are far bigger than us", when the truth is that, for now at least, we are on the same footing as these "far bigger" clubs and we can match them in so many ways. The sort of small team mentality being portrayed by some in this thread would, in my opinion, see us slowly revert to the sort of club we were in 16/17 where we were, basically, hoping to get lucky - there is an opportunity now which may not be here even this time next year, but it needs to be grasped, not feared.
    I'd willingly forego my £10 City Cash credit if it helps - and I'd encourage others to do the same.

  24. #54
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    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    The Tan Commandments?

  25. #55

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    All this talk of how much we may/could spend. What happens if the club HAS TO pay Nantes the Sala fee? How would that impact upon any possible funds being available?

  26. #56

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by fingers View Post
    All this talk of how much we may/could spend. What happens if the club HAS TO pay Nantes the Sala fee? How would that impact upon any possible funds being available?
    Absolutely nothing. Then there will be a ruling that City is in the owe, and then insurance should cover it. Unless our hamster Warwick and the Mackays did a number on us there to..

  27. #57

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmother View Post
    Absolutely nothing. Then there will be a ruling that City is in the owe, and then insurance should cover it. Unless our hamster Warwick and the Mackays did a number on us there to..
    The hamster was called Basil ........and it was a rat!!!!!!!!

  28. #58
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    Feb 2009
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    Baku, Azerbaijan
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    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    The hamster was called Basil ........and it was a rat!!!!!!!!
    It's not a rat, it's a siberian hamster.

  29. #59

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    It's not a rat, it's a siberian hamster.
    Well you tell the hotel inspector that !!!!!!

  30. #60

    Re: Tan's Comments On Warnock

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Right, let's see what I'm actually saying as opposed to what you and others assume I'm saying.

    In my only blog piece I've written since our relegation, I didn't even mention spending plans for next season. All I did was advocate that what would be a fairly modest sum be spent on someone with the requisite knowledge and experience to study things like our youth development and recruitment and suggest how things could be improved because we have an Academy that does not produce first team footballers and a transfer committee that has not signed a single player on a permanent basis in the past eighteen months who would be regarded as an automatic first choice in the side, despite the fact that we have spent something like 40 million pounds in transfer fees during that time (this does not include the 15 million fee for Emiliano Sala).

    Apart from that, I've made some messageboard contributions and in not one of those have I advocated anything like the sort of transfer spending seen by the likes of Fulham and some of the clubs with financial problems that have been mentioned in this thread. Indeed, in the first reply to the OP in this thread I spoke of how, if he continues as our manager, I would be wary of giving Neil Warnock substantial transfer funds this summer because of his record in that department since 2017.

    It's worth remembering what was I believe to be a prevailing view on here this time last year. The feeling then was that we should not break the bank during the summer in a repeat of what happened in 2013, far better to err on the side of caution and then accept the probable relegation which followed in the knowledge that we'd be a stable club with the opportunity to have a real go at promotion the following season.

    Go back a year before that and there was no talk whatsoever of buying our way to promotion - people accepted that approach and were all in favour of spending within our means. In the event, that approach was working so well that it was only in January with the six million pound spent on Gary Madine as promotion began to look more like a probability that we started behaving like most would expect a promotion chasing side to behave when it comes to transfer expenditure - until then, we had been a club that hoped for a promotion rather than expected one in the manner that so many in the Championship do.

    When it comes to transfer expenditure, our policy during the summer of 2017 was exactly right for the type of club we were then. As for the summer of 2018, it's more arguable whether there should have been more ambitious shown, but, as I said, I believe the prevailing view on here at least was that the club's approach was thought to be the right one.

    However, let's look at what has changed since the summer of 2017. First of all, promotion has resulted in far, far better income than had been budgeted for. I don't have the exact figures to hand and people better versed in football finances than me may want to put me right here, but it seems to me that promotion will have netted us around 200 million pounds in terms of TV money and parachute payments. Furthermore, a bonus of promotion was that the planned conversion of nearly 70 million pounds of club debt into equity by Vincent Tan, which had been prohibited under Football League rules, was able to be completed at this time last year.

    So, in essence, Cardiff City Football Club has benefited to the tune of around a quarter of a billion pounds compared to where we were in 2017 and where we were budgeted to be in the summer of 2019 - even if I've got those figures wrong and we are only benefiting by half of what I say, the financial landscape for the club has changed hugely in the last two years.

    On top of that, our average home attendance in 16/17 was 16,564, this season it was 31,413 - I make that a rise of 89.6%. Now, I'm not stupid enough to think that, even with Aston Villa 2017 type spending this summer, we will average anything like that next season, but why should a figure 50% up on 16/17 not be achievable?

    I don't care what people think of me using the term "plucky little Cardiff City", I'm going to keep on using it because it sums up a mentality that says "isn't it brilliant how we can do the same as other clubs that are far bigger than us", when the truth is that, for now at least, we are on the same footing as these "far bigger" clubs and we can match them in so many ways. The sort of small team mentality being portrayed by some in this thread would, in my opinion, see us slowly revert to the sort of club we were in 16/17 where we were, basically, hoping to get lucky - there is an opportunity now which may not be here even this time next year, but it needs to be grasped, not feared.
    Blimey! Bit of bed-time reading there - what strikes me most about this exchange is that i was able to spell amateurs correctly, on other websites I usually just typ a.. m.. and the rest comes up automatically.

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