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Thread: Has football ever been better?

  1. #31

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps people are forming their opinions based on what they're seeing with their own eyes.

    I'm greatly amused by the fact that there are those who apparently haven't enjoyed the glorious football we've witnessed this season, though. If they think it's shit, I'd love to know what they think is good.....
    http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...0%92s+football

    See gringo’s link in thread

  2. #32

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps people are forming their opinions based on what they're seeing with their own eyes.

    I'm greatly amused by the fact that there are those who apparently haven't enjoyed the glorious football we've witnessed this season, though. If they think it's shit, I'd love to know what they think is good.....
    Some of what I’ve seen is happening right before my eyes yet sometimes I can’t keep up, it’s a blur, Christ knows what it’s like being on the pitch actually confronting it. I was in the ‘away’ end for that Super Cup game at our ground the other season, Bale was definitely on the right wing running towards our end, the ball ended up in the net through Ronaldo and he ran to Bale to thank him for the cross from the LEFT wing!! I wasn’t pissed, for a change, yet I never seen him switch flanks in the move but he bloody did. And it’s been akin to that this season in some of our drubbings, my jersey would be inside out & back to front if I had to mark these players, even though we’ve been on the wrong end of their wizardry (now there’s an old football description) it’s hard not to admire it, it is so impressive.

  3. #33

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Some of what I’ve seen is happening right before my eyes yet sometimes I can’t keep up, it’s a blur, Christ knows what it’s like being on the pitch actually confronting it. I was in the ‘away’ end for that Super Cup game at our ground the other season, Bale was definitely on the right wing running towards our end, the ball ended up in the net through Ronaldo and he ran to Bale to thank him for the cross from the LEFT wing!! I wasn’t pissed, for a change, yet I never seen him switch flanks in the move but he bloody did. And it’s been akin to that this season in some of our drubbings, my jersey would be inside out & back to front if I had to mark these players, even though we’ve been on the wrong end of their wizardry (now there’s an old football description) it’s hard not to admire it, it is so impressive.
    And yet, incredibly, we have people in this thread claiming football is the worst it's ever been (or words to that effect) and the players are robotic!

    Some of the football in the Premier League this season has been breathtaking, and I'm not just talking about the top two, who have been sensational. Mid-ranking sides like Watford and Wolves have also played some incredible stuff, as have Palace

    The two Champions League semis speak for themselves, and there were also a couple of amazing games earlier in the competition. Meanwhile, both Norwich and Sheffield United have produced some exhilarating performances in the Championship.

    It's been a vintage year for British club football. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who hasn't enjoyed it.

  4. #34

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Maths obviously isn't your strong point then, Mozz.

    The Spurs squad actually contained six British players yesterday, while Liverpool's squad the night before contained eight. By comparison, the Barcelona squad contained just five Spaniards.
    I got the team line ups from a web site yesterday obviously not right as it didn't mention ben davies and I thought that was odd . noticed tonight he came on as sub last night .I didn't see the game last night so took the line ups as gospel . Haven't seen too many brits in the arsenal line up tonight !

  5. #35

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Added to the lack of home grown on the pitch, the demise of the English manager at the highest level is stark. Years gone by there was always a healthy, successful Scottish contingent as well. A few English managers also went Continental, obviously the money sloshing about has a lot to do with it but we’ve fallen miles behind haven’t we.

  6. #36

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Added to the lack of home grown on the pitch, the demise of the English manager at the highest level is stark. Years gone by there was always a healthy, successful Scottish contingent as well. A few English managers also went Continental, obviously the money sloshing about has a lot to do with it but we’ve fallen miles behind haven’t we.
    That's true, but young English and Welsh players seem to be benefitting from having foreign coaches.

  7. #37

  8. #38

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    That's true, but young English and Welsh players seem to be benefitting from having foreign coaches.
    But are they breaking through to regular first team football? Prem clubs usually go for the ‘off the shelf’ ready made early 20s or even older player from abroad rather than give their own youth a chance. Annoying about Matonda going to Man City, then ending up at Schalke, if he’s at that Bundesliga standard he’d have certainly got a lot of game time had he stayed with us. Sancho, an England international, over in Germany as well. Who’s the Chelsea player who fairly recently made his England debut before his first team debut. Unthinkable in the not too distant past, a player actually playing for England yet hadn’t started for his club!!!! England u/17 & u/19 have done marvellous at tournaments and, as you say, this is no doubt due to working day in, day out at their clubs with the creme de la creme but there must be 40 odd players involved, how many will get a sniff of a first team opportunity? It’s a Catch 22 situation, it’ll be sad to see a lot of young UK talent hit a brick wall at 20/21, it’ll be interesting in, say, 10 years time to read a ‘Where are they now’ article about the squads of these recent English tournament winners. Let’s hope the majority of them can break through.

  9. #39

  10. #40

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    But are they breaking through to regular first team football? Prem clubs usually go for the ‘off the shelf’ ready made early 20s or even older player from abroad rather than give their own youth a chance. Annoying about Matonda going to Man City, then ending up at Schalke, if he’s at that Bundesliga standard he’d have certainly got a lot of game time had he stayed with us. Sancho, an England international, over in Germany as well. Who’s the Chelsea player who fairly recently made his England debut before his first team debut. Unthinkable in the not too distant past, a player actually playing for England yet hadn’t started for his club!!!! England u/17 & u/19 have done marvellous at tournaments and, as you say, this is no doubt due to working day in, day out at their clubs with the creme de la creme but there must be 40 odd players involved, how many will get a sniff of a first team opportunity? It’s a Catch 22 situation, it’ll be sad to see a lot of young UK talent hit a brick wall at 20/21, it’ll be interesting in, say, 10 years time to read a ‘Where are they now’ article about the squads of these recent English tournament winners. Let’s hope the majority of them can break through.
    There are pros and cons for everything, but the English and Welsh national teams look in pretty decent shape by comparison to many previous generations.

  11. #41

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    And yet players are going unpaid, multiple clubs below the Premier League are in a state financially and clubs are in danger of going bust

    Football is doing brilliantly at the very top, but not below

  12. #42

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    There are pros and cons for everything, but the English and Welsh national teams look in pretty decent shape by comparison to many previous generations.
    They do, it has to be that the few English & Welsh players who are actually getting game time at the highest level are benefiting greatly due to the high standard of management & team mates. But in truth we’ve always had a small pool of players to choose from whereas England had hundreds playing in the top division in the past, so perhaps the dilution has helped at international level rather than hindered. If you’re playing regularly at the top these days you are some player. The hoovering up of youngsters by the top clubs is still annoying though, youngsters who’ll never make a first team appearance whereas they would for the clubs they’ve been poached from. Matondo would have walked into our team at no loss to Man City whatsoever, the country could still have marvelled at their superb play. He’s obviously playing at a high standard anyway but how many others are lost to the game?

  13. #43

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps people are forming their opinions based on what they're seeing with their own eyes.

    I'm greatly amused by the fact that there are those who apparently haven't enjoyed the glorious football we've witnessed this season, though. If they think it's shit, I'd love to know what they think is good.....
    Perception and taste. I enjoy watching my team win. I don't enjoy watching them lose. I don't watch football on TV, so my only experience is watching Cardiff City and Wales live, in a stadium. If either of them lose, it isn't an enjoyable day.

  14. #44

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    Perception and taste. I enjoy watching my team win. I don't enjoy watching them lose. I don't watch football on TV, so my only experience is watching Cardiff City and Wales live, in a stadium. If either of them lose, it isn't an enjoyable day.
    That’s unfortunate. I guess you must have had a dismal season. Sounds to me like you’re not a football fan as such, but rather you enjoy the lifestyle of supporting a football club. I can associate with that as there was a lengthy period when things were similar for me, although even when I was at my most obsessive I always watched a bit of football on TV and used to go to the occasional game that didn’t involve City.

  15. #45

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    I see that, apparently, it's only us old gits who don't think football is better than its ever been - speaking as someone who always tries to avoid the trap of saying everything was better in my day, I must point out the obvious fact that you would expect older people to give a more reliable answer to the question asked in the thread title because they have seen more football than those who appear to be eager to write their views off.

    Anyway, that's by the by. Although I thought that, given the prize that was at stake, Ajax were very naive in not trying to run the clock down in those closing minutes when they had plenty of opportunities to do so, I accept that their match with Spurs was a very good game of football, but Liverpool v Barcelona? I'm not so sure about that one.

    I can only think of the Brazil side from the 1970 World Cup as a team I have seen that might have been able to beat the Barcelona side of around 2010/11. That Barcelona side were fantastic, but in recent years they have been a long way short of that standard as evidenced by the number of very heavy defeats (one or two of which they have been able to overturn) in away ties in the latter stages of the Champions League. I didn't watch the First Leg, but everything I have seen or read about it said that Barca were flattered by their margin of victory, so was what happened on Tuesday really the miracle it is portrayed as being?

    For me, Liverpool's first goal was down to a dreadful individual error by Barcelona's left back, there will be those who say their keeper should have saved the second one (I wouldn't be one of them mind), the third was a free header in the six yard box and while the fourth was brilliantly conceived and executed, it owed a lot, as did their first goal down here, to a defence that fell asleep at a corner.

    Fantastic drama? Absolutely, but proof for a theory that football has never been better? I don't think so.

  16. #46

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    In fairness, I don’t think anyone has claimed that one game alone is evidence of football never being better.

    Personally, I don’t think English club football has ever been better in terms of the quality on show in the top flight. As for football in general, that’s harder to judge, particularly as a couple of the major European leagues are now effectively non-events.

  17. #47

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I see that, apparently, it's only us old gits who don't think football is better than its ever been - speaking as someone who always tries to avoid the trap of saying everything was better in my day, I must point out the obvious fact that you would expect older people to give a more reliable answer to the question asked in the thread title because they have seen more football than those who appear to be eager to write their views off.

    Anyway, that's by the by. Although I thought that, given the prize that was at stake, Ajax were very naive in not trying to run the clock down in those closing minutes when they had plenty of opportunities to do so, I accept that their match with Spurs was a very good game of football, but Liverpool v Barcelona? I'm not so sure about that one.

    I can only think of the Brazil side from the 1970 World Cup as a team I have seen that might have been able to beat the Barcelona side of around 2010/11. That Barcelona side were fantastic, but in recent years they have been a long way short of that standard as evidenced by the number of very heavy defeats (one or two of which they have been able to overturn) in away ties in the latter stages of the Champions League. I didn't watch the First Leg, but everything I have seen or read about it said that Barca were flattered by their margin of victory, so was what happened on Tuesday really the miracle it is portrayed as being?

    For me, Liverpool's first goal was down to a dreadful individual error by Barcelona's left back, there will be those who say their keeper should have saved the second one (I wouldn't be one of them mind), the third was a free header in the six yard box and while the fourth was brilliantly conceived and executed, it owed a lot, as did their first goal down here, to a defence that fell asleep at a corner.

    Fantastic drama? Absolutely, but proof for a theory that football has never been better? I don't think so.
    In terms of pure quality the Man City vs Spurs 2nd leg was one of the best games of football I have ever seen.

    The quality of the attacking play by Man City and the speed and cleverness of Tottenham in transition was off the scale.

    I have watched football since the mid 80s and the speed and quality of the game now is on another level.

    How people can make the accusation that people like De Bruyne, Hazard, Sterling, Mane, Silva, Eriksen etc are robots is beyond me.

    As I get older and the mob mentality at football has ebbed out I find myself going to football to enjoy watching players do things I could only dream of doing rather than my sole purpose of going to football being to watch my team win and I can honestly say I am far more likely to see exceptional footballers at our stadium now than I was 20 years ago.

  18. #48

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    In terms of pure quality the Man City vs Spurs 2nd leg was one of the best games of football I have ever seen.

    The quality of the attacking play by Man City and the speed and cleverness of Tottenham in transition was off the scale.

    I have watched football since the mid 80s and the speed and quality of the game now is on another level.

    How people can make the accusation that people like De Bruyne, Hazard, Sterling, Mane, Silva, Eriksen etc are robots is beyond me.

    As I get older and the mob mentality at football has ebbed out I find myself going to football to enjoy watching players do things I could only dream of doing rather than my sole purpose of going to football being to watch my team win and I can honestly say I am far more likely to see exceptional footballers at our stadium now than I was 20 years ago.
    The contrast between the Spurs team in their recent away games in the Premier League and what they did away from home in their last two Champions League matches is startling and, daft as it may sound, I think there is a case for leaving Kane out of the Final even if he is fit.

    Regarding robotic players, I believe they are more "programmed" than they used to be in that the overall plan is now all encompassing, but I'd agree with your point about the individuals you mention - the best managers and coaches are still prepared to allow individual expression to flourish within their "system".

    Nevertheless, I stick to my point about the standard of defending not being as good as it once was. In many ways of course that's a good thing, but it would be interesting to see how players such as Baresi, Maldini, Scirea, Cannavaro, Blanc, Thuram and Passarella (with the exception of the last named, they were all footballers as well as defenders and would not have suffered much because of the lessening of the amount of "physical" defending allowed these days) would have coped today.

  19. #49

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I see that, apparently, it's only us old gits who don't think football is better than its ever been - speaking as someone who always tries to avoid the trap of saying everything was better in my day, I must point out the obvious fact that you would expect older people to give a more reliable answer to the question asked in the thread title because they have seen more football than those who appear to be eager to write their views off.
    Quite right TOBW. I often think back wistfully to those days when City were in the Fourth Division. I could leave my house in North Cardiff half an hour before ko, drive to Ninian Park with no hold ups, park outside the bus station, get a pastie and a tea, then wander in and choose where I wanted to sit. A proper football day out, not this plastic stuff you're all enthusing about although it may possibly be a better standard these days.

  20. #50

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    I don't necessarily think the game is better than ever, access to the game is certainly better.

    What we see these days is games from through-out Europe being shown on tv on a regular basis, when I was growing up yo certainly would not have the opportunity to see Messi every week, instead his reputation would build and you would get glimpses of the player once or twice a season.

    Also you have the massive expansion of the Champions League, in the past neither Tottenham or Liverpool would have qualified for this years event, and many of the games have seen as classic simply wouldn't have existed.

    With the saturation of TV there becomes hype, and games must be the greatest until the next one which will be the greatest. There is always the natural leaning to think that the emotional event you are witnessing, must be better than the thing that happened in the past of which you had no connection.

  21. #51

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    I think in terms of neutral matches the champions league Knock out rounds and the Wolves Watford semi final are some of the most exciting matches I’ve ever seen.

    People like to be nostalgic and cynical for the sake of it.

    Football isn’t perfect, it’s corrupt, there’s too big a gap between the haves and have nots and plenty of other negatives. But I don’t understand how you can like football and watch those 2 champions league semis and not enjoy them.

  22. #52

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think in terms of neutral matches the champions league Knock out rounds and the Wolves Watford semi final are some of the most exciting matches I’ve ever seen.

    People like to be nostalgic and cynical for the sake of it.

    Football isn’t perfect, it’s corrupt, there’s too big a gap between the haves and have nots and plenty of other negatives. But I don’t understand how you can like football and watch those 2 champions league semis and not enjoy them.
    People are not saying that they didn't enjoy those matches. I have thoroughly enjoyed this weeks football. I have enjoyed matches as much in the past also.

    I don't think the football that is happening now is so good that it totally eclipses everything else.

  23. #53

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    What we see these days is games from through-out Europe being shown on tv on a regular basis, when I was growing up yo certainly would not have the opportunity to see Messi every week, instead his reputation would build and you would get glimpses of the player once or twice a season.
    That is precisely why him and Ronaldo are so good. You dont see the odd highlight reel to form an opinion. You see them week in week out and they produce again and again and again.
    My opinion on Pele is based on a few games and some stats. My opinion on Messi comes from watching him week in week out for over 10 years.

  24. #54

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    That is precisely why him and Ronaldo are so good. You dont see the odd highlight reel to form an opinion. You see them week in week out and they produce again and again and again.
    My opinion on Pele is based on a few games and some stats. My opinion on Messi comes from watching him week in week out for over 10 years.
    That still doesn't make your opinion correct. Just because you see alot of a player doesn't mean that the player you have seen less of is worse.

    Messi and Ronaldo stats in the champions league are boosted by the fact that they play every year in the competition.

  25. #55

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by qccfc View Post
    That still doesn't make your opinion correct. Just because you see alot of a player doesn't mean that the player you have seen less of is worse.

    Messi and Ronaldo stats in the champions league are boosted by the fact that they play every year in the competition.
    What about their league stats though? They’re both far better than anyone who’s ever played however you want to judge it.

  26. #56

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What about their league stats though? They’re both far better than anyone who’s ever played however you want to judge it.
    I never really understand the certainty that people talk about when they talk about Messi and Ronaldo.

    If someone asked me who i felt was the greatest player of all time i would say Maradona, my reasoning for that would be because what he achieved at both Argentina and Napoli were greater achievements than either of the other 2 have achieved. At the same time i understand the consistency argument that clearly Messi and Ronaldo have achieved great feats over a longer period of time than many others have managed to.

    I find it difficult to believe that right at this present moment we are seeing the greatest football of all time played by the greatest players of all time, its the same type of bias that leads everyone to think the music from their generation was the best ever.

  27. #57

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    What about their league stats though? They’re both far better than anyone who’s ever played however you want to judge it.
    Impossible to compare different generations. Both would have had the shit kicked out of them in Pele's time

  28. #58

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    The PL or top division of English football is definitely at its strongest. Money has seen to that.

    The armchair fan probably hasnt had it so good.

    Nothing beats live football watching your team with yout mates/family experiencing the highs or lows.

    I can take or leave a PL game depending on what im doing.

    Just cant get anywhere near the same enjoyment as theres no connection.

    Looking forward to the Championship play offs though.

  29. #59

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Impossible to compare different generations. Both would have had the shit kicked out of them in Pele's time
    But defenders are faster, fitter and more tactically aware than ever. Older defenders would have struggled to keep up with them.

  30. #60

    Re: Has football ever been better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But defenders are faster, fitter and more tactically aware than ever. Older defenders would have struggled to keep up with them.
    If the older players played today they would have the same advancements in diet, lifestyle and medical science. It cannot be a way to compare generations.

    It is a level playing field for both.

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