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Thread: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

  1. #1

    Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??


  2. #2

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    It is a policy that helps people who don't have the right to vote.

  3. #3

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It is a policy that helps people who don't have the right to vote.
    Or they may vote soon ?

    Have to give it Labour thier ability to harness youngsters attention is good off the back of tution fees , free bus travel , the climate rallies, just hope it's a real policy and not one that fails to be delivered as its all very costly .

    The wage one may adversely effect them though with less youngsters being employed to supplement the cost of doubling wages.

    Lovely policies , hopefully costed in and not an emotional policy .

  4. #4

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Or they may vote soon ?

    Have to give it Labour thier ability to harness youngsters attention is good off the back of tution fees , free bus travel , the climate rallies, just hope it's a real policy and not one that fails to be delivered as its all very costly .

    The wage one may adversely effect them though with less youngsters being employed to supplement the cost of doubling wages.

    Lovely policies , hopefully costed in and not an emotional policy .
    Bingo. Yet you refer to it as potentially 'blatant electioneering' above? Make your mind up.

  5. #5

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Bingo. Yet you refer to it as potentially 'blatant electioneering' above? Make your mind up.
    It will create youth unemployment , need to concentrate on youngsters staying in school and bettering themselves not jumping into wages that are attractive ,not a sensible decesion in my view just another undeliverable vote grabber ,bit like tution fees ,I'm sure a reversal or amended view will follow, as per the free tution fee banner ,free bus travel ??,free sweets ?? , we will end up subsiding them to not achieve if we're not careful .

    This will create higher youth employment as business will reduce and higher less people .

  6. #6

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It will create youth unemployment, need to concentrate on youngsters staying in school and bettering themselves not jumping into wages that are attractive ,not a sensible decesion in my view just another undeliverable vote grabber ,bit like tution fees ,I'm sure a reversal or amended view will follow, as per the free tution fee banner ,free bus travel ??,free sweets ?? , we will end up subsiding them to not achieve if we're not careful .

    This will create higher youth employment as business will reduce and higher less people .
    a) If you think the policy will make kids less employable and you want kids to stay in education then surely you should like the policy?

    b) How can this policy be a vote grabber if the people it benefits can't vote?

  7. #7

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    It's a vote grabber because anyone who throws money around is popular .

    The best policy to ensure youngsters get a future is to leave the non skilled wages as they are ,we don't want youngsters trapped in that world .

    Upscale apprenticeship jobs and wages us by far a better policy if we have money to spend.

  8. #8

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??


  9. #9

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Here's something Labour could get ther teeth into ..

    Number of public sector pensioners on 100k trebles in seven years

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard

  10. #10

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Here's something Labour could get ther teeth into ..

    Number of public sector pensioners on 100k trebles in seven years

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    What do you propose?

  11. #11

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    It's a vote grabber because anyone who throws money around is popular .
    No, they are popular with the people it benefits. Triple Lock + the rest bought the pensioner vote quite successfully. You can't buy the vote of someone who isn't entitled to.

    The best policy to ensure youngsters get a future is to leave the non skilled wages as they are ,we don't want youngsters trapped in that world .
    You have just said that this will make them less employable and then said they will all end up trapped there. Both can't be true.

  12. #12

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    How else do you cope with mass unemployment from technological advances? The benefits system is massively expensive and implemented in such an inhumane way. Labour might well be trialling it for the wrong reasons but UBI is inevitable at some point so it is probably worth considering how it could work.

    There is very little evidence to suggest that UBI actually leads to the average person working less. Unless you count the snobby 'poor people are poor because they are lazy' trope as evidence.

  13. #13

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    How else do you cope with mass unemployment from technological advances? The benefits system is massively expensive and implemented in such an inhumane way. Labour might well be trialling it for the wrong reasons but UBI is inevitable at some point so it is probably worth considering how it could work.

    There is very little evidence to suggest that UBI actually leads to the average person working less. Unless you count the snobby 'poor people are poor because they are lazy' trope as evidence.
    Your points are well positioned but in my view don't help young people , it just provides a vacuum and excuse not to progress in life .


    The wonderful recent plethora of offerings I'm sure are well meant certainty very popular .


    The deployment of such a programme of giveaways in my view will simply kill off or reduce employment for 16 - 18 year old ,as employers seek to offer less roles to folk by the doubling up of their wages .


    In my view they need better funded education ,not 10 an hour jobs , a wage/job to aim for , better paid and more Apprenticeships, funded centrally direct into businesses who prove they have a genuine up skilling pathway .

    I'm sure free tuition fees will soon appear again , free money is the word , and yes a very popular one ,and I'm sure gathers in the new populist politics , who have no other view .

    That's me done .

  14. #14

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Your points are well positioned but in my view don't help young people , it just provides a vacuum and excuse not to progress in life .


    The wonderful recent plethora of offerings I'm sure are well meant certainty very popular .


    The deployment of such a programme of giveaways in my view will simply kill off or reduce employment for 16 - 18 year old ,as employers seek to offer less roles to folk by the doubling up of their wages .


    In my view they need better funded education ,not 10 an hour jobs , a wage/job to aim for , better paid and more Apprenticeships, funded centrally direct into businesses who prove they have a genuine up skilling pathway .

    I'm sure free tuition fees will soon appear again , free money is the word , and yes a very popular one ,and I'm sure gathers in the new populist politics , who have no other view .

    That's me done .
    What do you mean when you say better funded education? I would make a significant proportion of university courses fee-free but you seem to be opposed to the reduction of tuition fees so I am struggling to work out where you would put this money.

    To flip it around because it adds a different dimension to the discussion - Why do you think we should have a minimum wage system that depends on age? I don't think it is radical to suggest that people should be paid according to their contribution and skill set and not their demographic. Is it proper for the government to effectively tell employers that a 17 year old is inherently worth less than a 21 year old and a 21 year old is inherently worth less than a 26 year old?

  15. #15

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    What do you mean when you say better funded education? I would make a significant proportion of university courses fee-free but you seem to be opposed to the reduction of tuition fees so I am struggling to work out where you would put this money.

    To flip it around because it adds a different dimension to the discussion - Why do you think we should have a minimum wage system that depends on age? I don't think it is radical to suggest that people should be paid according to their contribution and skill set and not their demographic. Is it proper for the government to effectively tell employers that a 17 year old is inherently worth less than a 21 year old and a 21 year old is inherently worth less than a 26 year old?
    Not only are younger people short-changed on the grounds of age discrimination but their older peers may be under threat of being replaced by cheaper labour i.e. the younger people.

  16. #16

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Why should teenagers be paid less for the same work?

  17. #17

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Why should teenagers be paid less for the same work?
    OP clearly doesn't want to answer that question as it has already been asked.

  18. #18

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    Why should teenagers be paid less for the same work?
    Not sure if you run a business or involved in employment and skills , supply and demand or stepped wage scales based on responsibility, skills , performance .

    These youngsters are building towards those higher skills and responsibilities they them earn more as they climb towards those achievement and goals ,its life learning .

    The orginal post was about Labour's carrot to just hand a huge rise to 16 - 18 year olds which in my view will greatly affect those opportunities as employers especially small businesses will be unable to double thier wages and probaly result in reducing their head counts to fund it if its forced upon them .

  19. #19

    Re: Blatant Electioneering Or Caring??

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Not sure if you run a business or involved in employment and skills , supply and demand or stepped wage scales based on responsibility, skills , performance .

    These youngsters are building towards those higher skills and responsibilities they them earn more as they climb towards those achievement and goals ,its life learning .

    The orginal post was about Labour's carrot to just hand a huge rise to 16 - 18 year olds which in my view will greatly affect those opportunities as employers especially small businesses will be unable to double thier wages and probaly result in reducing their head counts to fund it if its forced upon them .
    Pull the other one. Most 16/17 year olds in work are either serving coffee/food or lugging shit around in a supermarket. They aren't learning anything, it is pocket money for them and cheap labour for the business. I don't think many people disagree with the concept of an apprenticeship and youngsters learning on the job but when the job is sticking milk on a shelf that is not an apprenticeship.

    If your business model fails when you start paying people what it costs to live then you didn't have a business model to begin with.

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