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Thread: Blake - Talking Sense

  1. #1

    Blake - Talking Sense


  2. #2

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    I disagree, for me it's not about sentiment it's more to do with a solid group staying together , for one more year to provide continuity, along with improvements , and then change next season develooing a new longer term plan .

    For me this makes commercial sense .

  3. #3
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    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    There are pros and cons to Warnock staying another year.

    My reading of the many posts and threads across three Cardiff messageboards and assorted blogs and online news report comments is that most fans are happy that he is staying. Continuity and a very successful Championship track record go a long way.

    However, that doesn't mean that everyone is relaxed about the problems of finding a replacement manager (and when), the challenge of developing the club (Academy, training ground, scouting, recruitment, Board etc) and if it is possible to evolve the playing style with Neil Warnock in charge.

    At worst the club have just put off the need for fundamental change for a year. At best they have used the extra year well, with a popular and effective manager, to achieve the transition.

  4. #4

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Considering the recent thread on here based on Dalman suggesting City had started to plan for Premier League football much later than perhaps they should have, and considering we're going into a season where we need to replace three key midfielders, at least, and likely need to find a new starting striker, you would have to ask whether stability provided by Warnock is best or whether club has done enough to line up the next man who will come in with a blank slate which may be favourable for them. I would argue that because there is so much work to be done off the pitch too, training ground has been mentioned but improving our scouting network and creating a pathway from youth to senior football, then stability on the pitch is probably the right way to go.

  5. #5

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef View Post
    That's exactly what I've been saying for months.

  6. #6

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    How does Nathan Blake know that there is no transition plan. Our squad will be considerably stronger and better prepared at the end of next season for life in the Premier League than it was twelve months ago and any manager taking over will have a considerably easier job as a result. This will mainly be due to the job Warnock is doing. People also continually beat him over the head with the style of football played, whereas I see it that he finds a way of playing that suits the players he has available. With the two or three good quality players he wants now, there will be no reason why the way we play cant be improved next season and beyond. He plays to win games and get promotion. We should be thanking our lucky stars that he is still here.

  7. #7

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Not for me , Blakey’s talking out of his Khyber

  8. #8

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Blake is good when talking about technical stuff, but had no experience at all of managing anything, and it shows.

  9. #9

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    How does Nathan Blake know that there is no transition plan. Our squad will be considerably stronger and better prepared at the end of next season for life in the Premier League than it was twelve months ago and any manager taking over will have a considerably easier job as a result. This will mainly be due to the job Warnock is doing. People also continually beat him over the head with the style of football played, whereas I see it that he finds a way of playing that suits the players he has available. With the two or three good quality players he wants now, there will be no reason why the way we play cant be improved next season and beyond. He plays to win games and get promotion. We should be thanking our lucky stars that he is still here.
    Thank our lucky stars? You are SO ****ing pathetic.

  10. #10

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    How does Nathan Blake know that there is no transition plan. Our squad will be considerably stronger and better prepared at the end of next season for life in the Premier League than it was twelve months ago and any manager taking over will have a considerably easier job as a result. This will mainly be due to the job Warnock is doing. People also continually beat him over the head with the style of football played, whereas I see it that he finds a way of playing that suits the players he has available. With the two or three good quality players he wants now, there will be no reason why the way we play cant be improved next season and beyond. He plays to win games and get promotion. We should be thanking our lucky stars that he is still here.
    For me, the best managers do what you say and find a way which best suits the players they inherit, but, apart from at QPR where Warnock decided to change his approach to accommodate the the very talented Adel Taarabt (something he has said he would never do again), he always plays the same way.

    Cardiff City have made things harder for themselves by not producing their own first team footballers and adopting an expensive, and very hit and miss, approach to transfers (when did we last sell a player for more than we paid for them?) for years and Neil Warnock hasn't changed that - Blakey is right, the club needs a structure and some joined up thinking.

  11. #11

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    If Warnock buys a few players in their early to mid twenties and we start to play a bit of football. Albeit with dicipline and fast movement upfield (I'm not advocating for tika taka) I'm all for it. We do have to be able to slow it down and retain possesssion however. We break down and end up passing back to Etheridge WAY too often. If he buys 6 Sol Bamba's. The club is going nowhere.

  12. #12

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Potter did a fantastic job at the jacks last year and, going back further, Malky did even better job with us in the first year - both had a relatively clean slate but needed to do an awful lot of work to firstly make club survive the season. That's where we'd have been if Warnock had left and we could have ended up doing like Ipswich of this year instead. It's not delaying the inevitable if we use the year effectively.

  13. #13

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    If Warnock buys a few players in their early to mid twenties and we start to play a bit of football. Albeit with dicipline and fast movement upfield (I'm not advocating for tika taka) I'm all for it. We do have to be able to slow it down and retain possesssion however. We break down and end up passing back to Etheridge WAY too often. If he buys 6 Sol Bamba's. The club is going nowhere.
    thats a great song " there's 6 Sol Bamba's. , there's 6 Sol Bamba's "

  14. #14

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    I am sorry but I have to disagree, the only sense that Blakey is saying is non-sense

  15. #15

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Igovernor View Post
    I am sorry but I have to disagree, the only sense that Blakey is saying is non-sense
    What he's saying isn't even radical, it's what good clubs have been doing for years and what failing clubs have to do eventually. Let's get the disclaimer bit out of the way first; Warnock has been very good for the club, he's has galvanised the fanbase and in a way given back some identity. It has been entertaining even if some of the football has been awful.

    What we've got at the moment is an old manager with zero interest in building the club, i don't really blame him for that although he wasn't always old and i'm pretty sure that he's been pretty much the same throughout his career, he gets clubs up, they get relegated, he ****s off without any form of legacy, basically, they haven't improved. He's a Footballing hit man, clears the dead wood, removes the people causing problems and gets things going almost immediately, that's great when a club wants or needs a dramatic turn around although what's needed during that period is a plan, an infrastructure so that when he's gone a club doesn't end up where it was previously.

    Alot of fans love him and i can understand that, but i'd say that most of those supporters are the kind that like the up and at em' style that Warnock provides, i may offend with this, but i'd say that they're the type of fans who actually enjoy a basic level of football, hard work and grit because they associate with that. The problem is that it isn't long term or sustainable.

  16. #16

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    What he's saying isn't even radical, it's what good clubs have been doing for years and what failing clubs have to do eventually. Let's get the disclaimer bit out of the way first; Warnock has been very good for the club, he's has galvanised the fanbase and in a way given back some identity. It has been entertaining even if some of the football has been awful.

    What we've got at the moment is an old manager with zero interest in building the club, i don't really blame him for that although he wasn't always old and i'm pretty sure that he's been pretty much the same throughout his career, he gets clubs up, they get relegated, he ****s off without any form of legacy, basically, they haven't improved. He's a Footballing hit man, clears the dead wood, removes the people causing problems and gets things going almost immediately, that's great when a club wants or needs a dramatic turn around although what's needed during that period is a plan, an infrastructure so that when he's gone a club doesn't end up where it was previously.

    Alot of fans love him and i can understand that, but i'd say that most of those supporters are the kind that like the up and at em' style that Warnock provides, i may offend with this, but i'd say that they're the type of fans who actually enjoy a basic level of football, hard work and grit because they associate with that. The problem is that it isn't long term or sustainable.
    Why is it not sustainable ?

    Burnley are massively over achieving with a direct style.

    Wimbledon, Watford, Cambridge all had massive success with it- as have we to a lesser extent.

    It’s a myth I see perpetuated year after year these days that there is only one ‘right’ way to play football.

    There is still a place for pace and power and teamwork- as we saw 2 weeks ago at OT


    Warnock is more likely to succeed than a new manager coming in and trying to get us playing tippy- tappy

    It’s like we are all ignoring what happened with Trollope

    It was supposed to be this new modern football and it was turgid.
    Hardly a shot on target !

    Absolute garbage. These days there’s plenty of shots, goals and wingers taking their men on.

    With a few more talented players coming in then we should have more excitement again next season.

    During which time Warnock can be helping our inexperienced board look for s longer term replacement.

    To me it makes sense

  17. #17

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Why is it not sustainable ?

    Burnley are massively over achieving with a direct style.

    Wimbledon, Watford, Cambridge all had massive success with it- as have we to a lesser extent.

    It’s a myth I see perpetuated year after year these days that there is only one ‘right’ way to play football.

    There is still a place for pace and power and teamwork- as we saw 2 weeks ago at OT


    Warnock is more likely to succeed than a new manager coming in and trying to get us playing tippy- tappy

    It’s like we are all ignoring what happened with Trollope

    It was supposed to be this new modern football and it was turgid.
    Hardly a shot on target !

    Absolute garbage. These days there’s plenty of shots, goals and wingers taking their men on.

    With a few more talented players coming in then we should have more excitement again next season.

    During which time Warnock can be helping our inexperienced board look for s longer term replacement.

    To me it makes sense
    There was more than pace, power and teamwork at Old Trafford, there was also skill and some good passing - it was almost as if the brake had stopped being pressed after a season spent worrying about the opposition, will the brake be put on again by our manager come August?

  18. #18

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Why is it not sustainable ?

    Burnley are massively over achieving with a direct style.

    Wimbledon, Watford, Cambridge all had massive success with it- as have we to a lesser extent.

    It’s a myth I see perpetuated year after year these days that there is only one ‘right’ way to play football.

    There is still a place for pace and power and teamwork- as we saw 2 weeks ago at OT


    Warnock is more likely to succeed than a new manager coming in and trying to get us playing tippy- tappy

    It’s like we are all ignoring what happened with Trollope

    It was supposed to be this new modern football and it was turgid.
    Hardly a shot on target !

    Absolute garbage. These days there’s plenty of shots, goals and wingers taking their men on.

    With a few more talented players coming in then we should have more excitement again next season.

    During which time Warnock can be helping our inexperienced board look for s longer term replacement.

    To me it makes sense
    Burnley don't play like we do, they don't constantly give the ball back to their opponents, forget the possession stats, teams like us and Burnley are always going to be down the rankings in that category. It's fine to give up possession, it's how you line up when you've not got the ball and how you use it when you get it back, time after time we give the ball straight back, except against United, Wolves, Leicester to a lesser degree, Arsenal away we tried to play Southampton away for the last twenty minutes we were more composed etc, there's a common theme to not giving the ball back easily. Wimbledon and Watford evolved, and your Cambridge comparison must be going back to the early nineties when they had Dion Dublin playing for them and they were managed by John Still, how long did that last for?

    You seem to use extremes in order to prove your point, using words like 'tippy tappy' and referring to Trollope as if that's enough evidence to back up your opinion, nobody is asking for Trollope style football which was bereft of pace and end product, neither are they advocating Tippy Tappy football, that's nonsense, we've never been a club like that, we've never had fans who demand that either. What i believe people want is a balance, a bit of the Warnock up and at em' and intensity mixed in with a bit of calculation and thought when in possession, It's not radical.

    Our biggest problem (in my opinion) is how we surrender possession, especially when we don't have much in the first place. Time after time we just lump the ball up towards better players who use the ball effectively and we eventually get punished at a higher level. There were so many occasions last season where players were looking for an out, a simple ball, especially in midfield, it wasn't available and it almost always meant that we gave the ball straight back. We can't continue to do that against good players as we'll get punished. If that part of our game can be eradicated to a degree then we have a chance at the highest level. The Warnock wingers can stay, the low level possession wont be a problem. What is a huge problem is that our midfield have no options, dwell on the ball and act desperately in order to get rid of the ball, the rest is history. I don't think anyone wants a revolution, just some serious tweeks in the correct areas.

  19. #19

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnmower View Post
    Why is it not sustainable ?

    Burnley are massively over achieving with a direct style.

    Wimbledon, Watford, Cambridge all had massive success with it- as have we to a lesser extent.

    It’s a myth I see perpetuated year after year these days that there is only one ‘right’ way to play football.

    There is still a place for pace and power and teamwork- as we saw 2 weeks ago at OT


    Warnock is more likely to succeed than a new manager coming in and trying to get us playing tippy- tappy

    It’s like we are all ignoring what happened with Trollope

    It was supposed to be this new modern football and it was turgid.
    Hardly a shot on target !

    Absolute garbage. These days there’s plenty of shots, goals and wingers taking their men on.

    With a few more talented players coming in then we should have more excitement again next season.

    During which time Warnock can be helping our inexperienced board look for s longer term replacement.

    To me it makes sense
    Why is not sustainable? Well, Wimbledon and Cambridge for a start.

    Burnley next.

    Watford are a good football team.

  20. #20

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Burnley don't play like we do, they don't constantly give the ball back to their opponents, forget the possession stats, teams like us and Burnley are always going to be down the rankings in that category. It's fine to give up possession, it's how you line up when you've not got the ball and how you use it when you get it back, time after time we give the ball straight back, except against United, Wolves, Leicester to a lesser degree, Arsenal away we tried to play Southampton away for the last twenty minutes we were more composed etc, there's a common theme to not giving the ball back easily. Wimbledon and Watford evolved, and your Cambridge comparison must be going back to the early nineties when they had Dion Dublin playing for them and they were managed by John Still, how long did that last for?

    You seem to use extremes in order to prove your point, using words like 'tippy tappy' and referring to Trollope as if that's enough evidence to back up your opinion, nobody is asking for Trollope style football which was bereft of pace and end product, neither are they advocating Tippy Tappy football, that's nonsense, we've never been a club like that, we've never had fans who demand that either. What i believe people want is a balance, a bit of the Warnock up and at em' and intensity mixed in with a bit of calculation and thought when in possession, It's not radical.

    Our biggest problem (in my opinion) is how we surrender possession, especially when we don't have much in the first place. Time after time we just lump the ball up towards better players who use the ball effectively and we eventually get punished at a higher level. There were so many occasions last season where players were looking for an out, a simple ball, especially in midfield, it wasn't available and it almost always meant that we gave the ball straight back. We can't continue to do that against good players as we'll get punished. If that part of our game can be eradicated to a degree then we have a chance at the highest level. The Warnock wingers can stay, the low level possession wont be a problem. What is a huge problem is that our midfield have no options, dwell on the ball and act desperately in order to get rid of the ball, the rest is history. I don't think anyone wants a revolution, just some serious tweeks in the correct areas.
    Agree with you entirely. In an ideal world, I'd like to see us having 50% plus possession every week, but it's not going to happen with this squad. There has been plenty of proof though in the last few years that you don't need to be dominating possession every game to win trophies, but there surely can't have been many teams that have won automatic promotion to the Premier League that valued possession less than us.

    On that point, I'm glad to see one or two others on here sharing my complete bafflement at the tactic when we have possession about fifty yards from our opponent's goal of playing the ball back to Etheridge, whose kicking is the only aspect of his game that gets consistently criticised on here, who wellies it upfield and in nine cases out of ten puts the opposition back in possession with them having done little or nothing to win it back - if someone has an idea of what the thinking is behind this "tactic", I'd be fascinated to read it.

    One other thing, I think you mean John Beck with Cambridge United, not John Still.

  21. #21

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Burnley don't play like we do, they don't constantly give the ball back to their opponents, forget the possession stats, teams like us and Burnley are always going to be down the rankings in that category. It's fine to give up possession, it's how you line up when you've not got the ball and how you use it when you get it back, time after time we give the ball straight back, except against United, Wolves, Leicester to a lesser degree, Arsenal away we tried to play Southampton away for the last twenty minutes we were more composed etc, there's a common theme to not giving the ball back easily. Wimbledon and Watford evolved, and your Cambridge comparison must be going back to the early nineties when they had Dion Dublin playing for them and they were managed by John Still, how long did that last for?

    You seem to use extremes in order to prove your point, using words like 'tippy tappy' and referring to Trollope as if that's enough evidence to back up your opinion, nobody is asking for Trollope style football which was bereft of pace and end product, neither are they advocating Tippy Tappy football, that's nonsense, we've never been a club like that, we've never had fans who demand that either. What i believe people want is a balance, a bit of the Warnock up and at em' and intensity mixed in with a bit of calculation and thought when in possession, It's not radical.

    Our biggest problem (in my opinion) is how we surrender possession, especially when we don't have much in the first place. Time after time we just lump the ball up towards better players who use the ball effectively and we eventually get punished at a higher level. There were so many occasions last season where players were looking for an out, a simple ball, especially in midfield, it wasn't available and it almost always meant that we gave the ball straight back. We can't continue to do that against good players as we'll get punished. If that part of our game can be eradicated to a degree then we have a chance at the highest level. The Warnock wingers can stay, the low level possession wont be a problem. What is a huge problem is that our midfield have no options, dwell on the ball and act desperately in order to get rid of the ball, the rest is history. I don't think anyone wants a revolution, just some serious tweeks in the correct areas.
    I agree. Cambridge had a couple of good seasons with the long ball and Dion Dublin. They went from the 4th Division to close to the top of the 2nd division and they almost made it to the 1st . But they didn't. And it certainly wasn't sustainable.

  22. #22

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Agree with you entirely. In an ideal world, I'd like to see us having 50% plus possession every week, but it's not going to happen with this squad. There has been plenty of proof though in the last few years that you don't need to be dominating possession every game to win trophies, but there surely can't have been many teams that have won automatic promotion to the Premier League that valued possession less than us.

    On that point, I'm glad to see one or two others on here sharing my complete bafflement at the tactic when we have possession about fifty yards from our opponent's goal of playing the ball back to Etheridge, whose kicking is the only aspect of his game that gets consistently criticised on here, who wellies it upfield and in nine cases out of ten puts the opposition back in possession with them having done little or nothing to win it back - if someone has an idea of what the thinking is behind this "tactic", I'd be fascinated to read it.

    One other thing, I think you mean John Beck with Cambridge United, not John Still.
    The big kick out is a throwback to the ‘big man, little man’ days. Very effective it was too in the Toshack/ Keegan (wouldn't say Toshack/Clark as Clarkie was no slouch in the air and couldn’t be regarded as the little man) era. Would be a great retro tactic if a team had a monster of a centre forward with a couple of speed merchants either side of him.
    We certainly haven’t got a centre forward of that ilk so every kick out is nigh on a 90/10 in the defender’s favour. Is Warnock that dubious about our players ability to find a bit of space to enable them to receive a throw out? It annoys me immensely when Etheridge does that little ‘throw out’ dummy before the huge kick, surely we’ve got the players to mix it up a bit.

  23. #23

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    The only point of reference I can think of with regard to Warnock's legacy-making is that he wanted Malky Mackay to take over from him at QPR, but that didn't happen because NW was pushed before he jumped. This was said in 2012, so I imagine he was referring to MM's time at Watford. That doesn't suggest he'll saddle us with 'NW mark 2', although this is only one example, of course.

  24. #24

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Agree with you entirely. In an ideal world, I'd like to see us having 50% plus possession every week, but it's not going to happen with this squad. There has been plenty of proof though in the last few years that you don't need to be dominating possession every game to win trophies, but there surely can't have been many teams that have won automatic promotion to the Premier League that valued possession less than us.

    On that point, I'm glad to see one or two others on here sharing my complete bafflement at the tactic when we have possession about fifty yards from our opponent's goal of playing the ball back to Etheridge, whose kicking is the only aspect of his game that gets consistently criticised on here, who wellies it upfield and in nine cases out of ten puts the opposition back in possession with them having done little or nothing to win it back - if someone has an idea of what the thinking is behind this "tactic", I'd be fascinated to read it.

    One other thing, I think you mean John Beck with Cambridge United, not John Still.
    The way some people go on, it's as if they think that what we're asking for is a replication of Barcelona or Man City, not even close. Like i said, just a bit more method and thought when we do get the ball and the ability to keep it when we have to. John Beck-That's the bloke. I remember reading that he used to get his players to have a cold shower before they went out for a game. I wonder what he's up to now?

  25. #25

    Re: Blake - Talking Sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    The way some people go on, it's as if they think that what we're asking for is a replication of Barcelona or Man City, not even close. Like i said, just a bit more method and thought when we do get the ball and the ability to keep it when we have to.
    The plan has got to be a bit more than that though hasn’t it? How is that going to set us apart from all the other clubs already doing that, assuming the plan is also to deliver success on the field?

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