Labour close win Peterborough

[Pedro de la Rosa]

My mind changed when I realised belatedly that the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office and I'm not talking about the 2008 crisis which went far wider than the UK. The final straw for me was when Corbyn and McDonald came to the forefront who couldn't even attract the confidence of decent and talented Labour members like Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper. The rump that are left such as Rebecca Long Bailey, Dawn Butler and Diane Abbot are not up to running the country in my opinion as many of the decent MPs fail to support Corbyn for good reason.

For the record I can't stand Boris Johnson either so why you think I am a cheerleader for him is a wildly inaccurate assumption. My advice to you and others would be don't vote for a political party because you always have done as many people in Wales seem to vote Labour because that is how they have always voted.

Where do you stand on the current Tory government spending far more money than they've got? Chris Grayling alone is a "magic money tree". If you can point me to a Tory government surplus that doesn't involve selling off council houses, I'd love to see it, there hasn't been one since the Second World War.

[Vindec]

Where do you stand on the current Tory government spending far more money than they've got? Chris Grayling alone is a "magic money tree". If you can point me to a Tory government surplus that doesn't involve selling off council houses, I'd love to see it, there hasn't been one since the Second World War.

All governments spend more money than they have got - it's called a deficit which has reduced substantially under this government. Where there is a deficit, debt will always rise. Labour's spending plans will add substantially to both debt and deficit levels. Sadly there is no political Party that is able to equalise income and expenditure. Spend less (austerity) is bad from the public viewpoint, spending more is good until expenditure has to be funded and that can only happen through growth and tax cuts. When people have to pay for government spending via increased taxation there is opposition meaning governments can't win.

As I have repeatedly said I am not a supporter of any political Party but, as matters stand, I cannot support the Labour Party while Corbyn is in charge as his policies in my view, will bankrupt the country.

[Croesy Blue]

They’ve reduced the deficit but people have literally died because of austerity.

Do you think a reduced deficit is worth austerity?

Corbyn wouldn’t be my choice but the threats of “financial bankruptcy” we keep hearing about is better than the moral bankruptcy we currently have.

Look at everything that’s been lost because of austerity ffs, how can you care more about reducing the deficit than everything we’ve given up because of it.

[Former Labour leader]

All governments spend more money than they have got - it's called a deficit which has reduced substantially under this government. Where there is a deficit, debt will always rise. Labour's spending plans will add substantially to both debt and deficit levels. Sadly there is no political Party that is able to equalise income and expenditure. Spend less (austerity) is bad from the public viewpoint, spending more is good until expenditure has to be funded and that can only happen through growth and tax cuts. When people have to pay for government spending via increased taxation there is opposition meaning governments can't win.

As I have repeatedly said I am not a supporter of any political Party but, as matters stand, I cannot support the Labour Party while Corbyn is in charge as his policies in my view, will bankrupt the country.

I think the country is pretty well bankrupt, made worse by Tory austerity since 2010. If Cameron and Osborne had listened to Labour plans to spend on infrastructure back then the country would be in a far better place than it is now. The Corbyn McD plans, which would no doubt be watered down in the face of opposition from Tory business would at least give some hope to the many millions out there who are just getting by.
Just to finish dislike of the EU didn't cause the the referendum result. Austerity did.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

All governments spend more money than they have got - it's called a deficit which has reduced substantially under this government. Where there is a deficit, debt will always rise. Labour's spending plans will add substantially to both debt and deficit levels. Sadly there is no political Party that is able to equalise income and expenditure. Spend less (austerity) is bad from the public viewpoint, spending more is good until expenditure has to be funded and that can only happen through growth and tax cuts. When people have to pay for government spending via increased taxation there is opposition meaning governments can't win.

As I have repeatedly said I am not a supporter of any political Party but, as matters stand, I cannot support the Labour Party while Corbyn is in charge as his policies in my view, will bankrupt the country.

So, let me get this right. It's OK when the Tories are spending money, when their policies are driving people to poverty and have killed over 1m people but when Labour spend money to help these people, that's bad?

I'm not a Corbyn fan but Jesus Christ, I'd have him over a Tory Gov any day of the week.

[Vindec]

They’ve reduced the deficit but people have literally died because of austerity.

Do you think a reduced deficit is worth austerity?

Corbyn wouldn’t be my choice but the threats of “financial bankruptcy” we keep hearing about is better than the moral bankruptcy we currently have.

Look at everything that’s been lost because of austerity ffs, how can you care more about reducing the deficit than everything we’ve given up because of it.

How will privatising the railways help with austerity? Where have I said I care about reducing the deficit? What I have said and what I believe is that Labour's spending plans are excessive and unrealistic which in the end will probably mean less money for the NHS and helping the poor as the country will not have the funds to deal with things they would like to do. You will recall Labour's spending plans for the NHS involved spending less on the NHS than the Tories. I even went on to say that no government can come up with a set of policies that will be acceptable to the public but excessive spending on policies that appear at first sight to be popular have to be paid for and specifically mentioned that austerity was unacceptable.

As I seem to have been misquoted on a few occasions I shall not bother to reply to any further posts on this matter.

[Croesy Blue]

Wait so you think Labour are going to overspend but underspend on the NHS?

What has privatising the railways got to do with austerity?

So you think the poor will be worse off under a labour government than a tory government who are planning a tax cut for the very wealthy?

[the other bob wilson]

So you think Corbyn (the Venezuela fan) and John Macdonald are better options. I agree that the current government is laughable especially due to their BREXIT antics but I would trust even less the Marxist Corbyn who couldn't even run his family finances and whose answer to everything is to chuck money at it. As I see it the current lot are the least worst option but as a floating voter I always make up my mind at the time of an election and not routinely vote for the same Party as many do.

What I do know is that if Corbyn and Co were removed Labour would win any future Election at a canter but with Momentum membership Corbyn is safe for as long as he wishes to remain as leader.

Anyone wanting to go back through my posting history on here will see that I'm not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and, certainly since 2001, have hardly voted for his party as a matter of routine - my last vote less than a month ago was cast for the Green Party. However, what I would say is that I, and much of the country it seems, found myself being impressed by him when he was given the opportunity to put his views over directly, as opposed to having them "interpreted" by experts, pundits and various other people with an agenda in the print and broadcast media during the 2017 election campaign - so maybe I'm guilty of paying too much attention to those media voices?

Also, I'm a little confused by what you say about the Labour Party considering that you were a member of it for twenty seven years. In particular, you come out with a common complaint made against the party when you say "the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office". One of the problems I have with that when I read it is that the Labour Party has only been voted out of Government once in the last forty years and, as you, rightly in my view, acknowledge, they were hardly wholly responsible for what happened in 2008 that played a big part in their election defeat two years later.

So, I can only assume that your drift away from the party you were a member of for almost three decades was based on their election defeats in 1970 and 1979 and yet it's hard to see how and when your period as a Labour member fits in with that - it would appear that, unless you are old enough to have taken out a membership around the end of the Second World War, you did not let either of those defeats influence you at the time.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that an awful lot of people had their heads turned during the "I, me, mine" decade (the 80s) and were taken in by the "economic miracle" credited to Margaret Thatcher's Government. I, on the other hand, see the deregulation of the banking and financial industries at the heart of said miracle as being the start of a process which led to what happened in 2008 and much of the subsequent hardship which stemmed from it - one thing which sustains me somewhat in the very turbulent times we live in is that there are signs that 80s style capitalism's chickens might just be coming home to roost.

[Former Labour leader]

Anyone wanting to go back through my posting history on here will see that I'm not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and, certainly since 2001, have hardly voted for his party as a matter of routine - my last vote less than a month ago was cast for the Green Party. However, what I would say is that I, and much of the country it seems, found myself being impressed by him when he was given the opportunity to put his views over directly, as opposed to having them "interpreted" by experts, pundits and various other people with an agenda in the print and broadcast media during the 2017 election campaign - so maybe I'm guilty of paying too much attention to those media voices?

Also, I'm a little confused by what you say about the Labour Party considering that you were a member of it for twenty seven years. In particular, you come out with a common complaint made against the party when you say "the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office". One of the problems I have with that when I read it is that the Labour Party has only been voted out of Government once in the last forty years and, as you, rightly in my view, acknowledge, they were hardly wholly responsible for what happened in 2008 that played a big part in their election defeat two years later.

So, I can only assume that your drift away from the party you were a member of for almost three decades was based on their election defeats in 1970 and 1979 and yet it's hard to see how and when your period as a Labour member fits in with that - it would appear that, unless you are old enough to have taken out a membership around the end of the Second World War, you did not let either of those defeats influence you at the time.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that an awful lot of people had their heads turned during the "I, me, mine" decade (the 80s) and were taken in by the "economic miracle" credited to Margaret Thatcher's Government. I, on the other hand, see the deregulation of the banking and financial industries at the heart of said miracle as being the start of a process which led to what happened in 2008 and much of the subsequent hardship which stemmed from it - one thing which sustains me somewhat in the very turbulent times we live in is that there are signs that 80s style capitalism's chickens might just be coming home to roost.

Nice one Bob. Couldn't have put it better myself. Osborne himself has admitted in recent years that blaming Labour for everything went wrong in the financial crisis was a political strategy not based on truth.
FWIW I reckon McD could turn out to be a very good chancellor with policies that work for the many,not the few (Sorry for that last soundbite).

[Eric the Half a Bee]

My mind changed when I realised belatedly that the Labour Party is about spending money the country hasn't got and leaving the country in a financial mess every time they leave office and I'm not talking about the 2008 crisis which went far wider than the UK.

Do you have any statistics to back this up? The reason I ask is that our national debt has generally always suffered more under Conservative governments. That can be proved statistically with this document. http://researchbriefings.files.parli...45/SN05745.pdf

[Former Labour leader]

Do you have any statistics to back this up? The reason I ask is that our national debt has generally always suffered more under Conservative governments. That can be proved statistically with this document. http://researchbriefings.files.parli...45/SN05745.pdf

Quite right Eric. Labour's economic record is far better than given credit for. Me thinks someone takes the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Times etc etc too seriously.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Quite right Eric. Labour's economic record is far better than given credit for. Me thinks someone takes the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Times etc etc too seriously.

The usual line is that Labour benefitted from a Tory economy while the Tories had to cope with dealing with a Labour economy. That isn't actually true if you look at the statistics. Look at the 2010 election for example. In opposition, the Tories backed Labour's spending plans, including the bank bailout. Even George Osborne in a recent interview with Andrew Neil admitted that he would have spent the same as Labour if the Conservatives had been in charge. Yet, come the election, they blame Labour overspending, not the bank bailout for the national debt. The media back this up and people believe Labour were reckless with the economy. The important thing to note is that independant organisations like the OBR, IFS, BoE etc have all dismissed the idea that Labour were reckless, only the right wing thinktanks (surprise surprise) peddled the idea.

[MOZZER2]

so a police investigation is under way

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-48665324

[life on mars]

so a police investigation is under way

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-48665324

It has a simalair ring to another case

https://www.politicalite.com/peterbo...igures-reveal/