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Thread: Goodnight Ryan

  1. #51

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Perhaps we are back in the Toshack transition era where ageing talent was phased out , to bring through very young future talent ,I seem to remember he took a bit of the same criticism, perhaps like Toshack he is laying the foundations.

  2. #52

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    At this moment in time I don't understand what Giggs wants us to be. I get that he prefers a left CB and a right CB to try and pass out from the back and I understand that he wants to bring in young players and expand our talent pool, but there is so much more that doesn't make sense at this time. Why does it seem that we play with 6 CB's and then 6 forwards and have no one to recover the ball in midfield? Why does it seem that our tactic for 90% of the game was to allow Daniel James to run fast and attract fouls, but not having worked on any sort of corner or free-kick routine that will help us score? Why does it seem that we're now worse at defending and worse at attacking but with a more talented squad?

    At this point we seem to be in the exact same position as we were in Coleman's final qualification group where we need to go on a long unbeaten run. Giggs has 3 months until the next game and most of that will see players on holiday or pre-season. Dear me, we're in trouble.

    On the bright-side, after the next round of fixtures we could be one point off second place and still in with a chance. Fans need to show up and be a credit where players and manager doesn't seem to be able to at the moment.
    You ask some pertinent questions there which go to the heart of why I'm concerned by what I've seen of Ryan Giggs' management so far - although I do think that he should be given until at least the end of this campaign before we start talking about sacking him. Where I disagree slightly is when you say it's like our last qualifying campaign because we've already lost more matches than we did in the whole of that one and given what we've seen in Croatia and Hungary, I can't see anything but another loss in Slovakia

  3. #53

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    13 Premier league titles
    4 FA Cups
    3 League cups
    2 Champions leagues
    Etc etc
    One thing he ain’t is a loser.
    Or a Manager.

  4. #54

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Some right pessimistic panickers on here.
    Coleman got the same treatment when he first took over. 2 disappointing performances away from home, but it’s hardly the end of the world!
    We can still qualify, and all the negative muppets will come out of the woodwork again.
    Under Coleman during Euro Qualifying, we had three 0-0 draws (2 were at home), only took a point against Bosnia, scraped a 2-1 win at Andora after the ref ordered a re-take of a free kick, and were the lowest scoring team against Andora in the competition (4 goals compared to Belgium's 10; Cyprus's 8 ; Israel's 8; and Bosnia's 6). Once we were there I think a donkey could have managed the team in the finals and got the same results (Mind you, we only scraped past NI with an OG). We tend to paper over the cracks with Coleman.

    As for "2 disappointing performances away from home", you clearly weren't at Wrexham to see us scrape a last minute 1-0 win against Trinidad & Tobago or out in Tirana to see us lose 1-0 against Albania. Giggs has managed Wales to SEVEN losses out of THIRTEEN games. Goals For 15 Against 12. That 15 goals includes six against China. Take a look at his record in competitive games. Do you still think he's the man for the job?

  5. #55

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Monk View Post
    Under Coleman during Euro Qualifying, we had three 0-0 draws (2 were at home), only took a point against Bosnia, scraped a 2-1 win at Andora after the ref ordered a re-take of a free kick, and were the lowest scoring team against Andora in the competition (4 goals compared to Belgium's 10; Cyprus's 8 ; Israel's 8; and Bosnia's 6). Once we were there I think a donkey could have managed the team in the finals and got the same results (Mind you, we only scraped past NI with an OG). We tend to paper over the cracks with Coleman.

    As for "2 disappointing performances away from home", you clearly weren't at Wrexham to see us scrape a last minute 1-0 win against Trinidad & Tobago or out in Tirana to see us lose 1-0 against Albania. Giggs has managed Wales to SEVEN losses out of THIRTEEN games. Goals For 15 Against 12. That 15 goals includes six against China. Take a look at his record in competitive games. Do you still think he's the man for the job?
    He's not.

    Aarhus lost 2-0
    Elbesan lost 1-0
    Osijek lost 2-1
    Budapest lost 1-0

    With players streets ahead in ability than almost every opposing player surely the FAW can see they messed up.
    Remove him now.
    His short reign is over.

  6. #56

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Perhaps we are back in the Toshack transition era where ageing talent was phased out , to bring through very young future talent ,I seem to remember he took a bit of the same criticism, perhaps like Toshack he is laying the foundations.
    We've got the talent, they just aren't clicking. James, Lawrence, Brooks, Wilson, Bale etc all up front. The problem is, they're all up front when they're playing. It's like we're playing a 4-2-4, and Joe Allen and a.n.other left to try and knit it all together. The last two games we've been dire going forward and an absolute shambles at the back. We've finally woken up when they've scored. We'll create stuff because we've got good players but there's no plan, or if there is, it is so far away from working it's unbelievable. Defensively, we're an absolute joke too, they could have won by 3,4,5 last night and we couldn't have complained. Let's hope he figures it out and pray Ramsey is back to play behind a front 3. If he plays Rambo alongside Allen...

    Bale, also, is a massive, massive worry. His confidence is shot to bits and if he's at Real Madrid in September, we might need to have a serious discussion about whether he plays. He's completely lost the love of the game, he's not haring about or trying to get on the ball. He needs to go somewhere where he loves his football if he wants to keep playing. Maybe I'm wrong and it all clicks, and I hope it does, but I think it's far more likely if he's playing regularly where he feels appreciated. He's 30 in a month, so it's going to be really, really difficult for him to come in, rusty as anything, and turn in a half decent performance. I'm far from blaming one of (if not the one) our greatest players for the defeat but he's a shadow of the player we've been used to.

  7. #57

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Last night was a shambles and Giggs is out of his depth.

    I never thought i'd say this but bring back Coleman.

    Also, Bale needs to get out of Real Madrid as it is not doing any good apart from financially to stay there.

  8. #58

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    I never thought i'd say this but bring back Coleman.
    I always find this odd from Cardiff fans. If there is one thing Giggs is proving, Coleman has something.

  9. #59

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    I always find this odd from Cardiff fans. If there is one thing Giggs is proving, Coleman has something.
    That something was a world class Gareth Bale and a prime Ashley Williams. If Coleman comes back he has neither.

    And yes we have some kids with potential, but thats all it is at the moment - potential.

  10. #60

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    C'mon guys,the group that got to the semi's in 2016 didn't exactly hit the ground running either and I seem to remember nobody wanted Colman as manager as well.Its all too easy to blame the manager and it smacks of a knee jerk reaction rather than a considered view.I quite like the style Giggs is trying to play but these youngsters are not yet in the same place as those 4 yrs ago.Just because we had some success 4 yrs ago lets not become english fans by throwing our toys out when thing don't go to plan.I think this current crop could eventually do as well if not better than the 2016 lot.

  11. #61

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    That something was a world class Gareth Bale and a prime Ashley Williams. If Coleman comes back he has neither.

    And yes we have some kids with potential, but thats all it is at the moment - potential.
    Agreed but he still did it, and then took us to a semi final. All managers need luck but we cruised qualification and rarely lost. If he wasn't a Jack, he'd get a lot more praise on here. We've had world class players in the past and not qualified.

    I have some sympathy with Giggs, though, Bale has been the worst player on the pitch with the exception of James Lawrence in the last two games.

  12. #62

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    C'mon guys,the group that got to the semi's in 2016 didn't exactly hit the ground running either and I seem to remember nobody wanted Colman as manager as well.Its all too easy to blame the manager and it smacks of a knee jerk reaction rather than a considered view.I quite like the style Giggs is trying to play but these youngsters are not yet in the same place as those 4 yrs ago.Just because we had some success 4 yrs ago lets not become english fans by throwing our toys out when thing don't go to plan.I think this current crop could eventually do as well if not better than the 2016 lot.
    If you can tell me what the plan is, I'd love to know. Giggs has had 18 months in the job and I'm still no closer to finding out what we're trying to do. It looked like 4-2-4 last night, the front 4 were pushed up so high we couldn't get them the ball and resorted to lumping it forward to James. Giggs is being let down, massively, by some of the bigger names (with the exception of Joe Allen) but there are major alarm bells ringing. He's not going to go anywhere though so I'm praying he can turn it around in the next 3 months.

  13. #63

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa View Post
    If you can tell me what the plan is, I'd love to know. Giggs has had 18 months in the job and I'm still no closer to finding out what we're trying to do. It looked like 4-2-4 last night, the front 4 were pushed up so high we couldn't get them the ball and resorted to lumping it forward to James. Giggs is being let down, massively, by some of the bigger names (with the exception of Joe Allen) but there are major alarm bells ringing. He's not going to go anywhere though so I'm praying he can turn it around in the next 3 months.
    Won't be 3 months I'm afraid,some of our players are babies and far from the finished article.One good tournament has given some fans the same expectations as england fans.We may have to face up to the fact that we won't qualify this time.

  14. #64

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    Won't be 3 months I'm afraid,some of our players are babies and far from the finished article.One good tournament has given some fans the same expectations as england fans.We may have to face up to the fact that we won't qualify this time.
    What's the plan though? What's Giggs trying to do?

  15. #65

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    I still think he’s the right man at the moment.

  16. #66

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    I still think he’s the right man at the moment.
    Feck!! I'd hate to see the wrong man then! We have been diabolical under Giggs. End of.

  17. #67

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68 View Post
    Feck!! I'd hate to see the wrong man then! We have been diabolical under Giggs. End of.
    Think your going a bit OTT.
    We’ve been nowhere near diabolical.

  18. #68

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Well as I'm not in his confidence I will hazard a guess.Just like Coleman before him I think he's trying to give as much experience as possible to the so in time they will mature into a good side just like the 2016 squad which incidentally were regarded as pants by many before then with many calling for Colmans head.

  19. #69

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    Well as I'm not in his confidence I will hazard a guess.Just like Coleman before him I think he's trying to give as much experience as possible to the so in time they will mature into a good side just like the 2016 squad which incidentally were regarded as pants by many before then with many calling for Colmans head.
    Quite right, in fact Coleman had a worse start than Giggs with easier fixtures but it came right in the Euros! Giggs has until the next World Cup to prove himself so let’s support him!

  20. #70

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto13 View Post
    Quite right, in fact Coleman had a worse start than Giggs with easier fixtures but it came right in the Euros! Giggs has until the next World Cup to prove himself so let’s support him!
    Too much sense creeping into this thread.

  21. #71
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    Well as I'm not in his confidence I will hazard a guess.Just like Coleman before him I think he's trying to give as much experience as possible to the so in time they will mature into a good side just like the 2016 squad which incidentally were regarded as pants by many before then with many calling for Colmans head.
    I think that this thought process is a fallacy. Who is Giggs going pick over the youngsters? The more obvious reason that they are getting game time is because they are better than the more senior Welsh players who play in the same positions as them - not because they are being blooded or other terms that I've seen used.

    Giggs is picking the best players available to him and isn't getting the results or, perhaps, more importantly, the performances you would expect from them.

  22. #72

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    I think there is a lot of work to do by the coaches and players but I think perhaps time to reflect as fans as well. The Ireland home game in the Nations League was a strange atmosphere because a) the players were so new to us but also b) it was so easy and so offensive compared to Coleman's time here that perhaps fans thought they could sit back and enjoy like the very quiet Man City fans do every week. I think b) has gone now so we definitely need to turn up and support the team and hopefully we'll grow stronger whereas Croatia grow weaker (very possible) and one of Slovakia or Hungary fall apart (very possible).

  23. #73

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    He gotta let the kids do what they wanna do and that’s attack !!!

    They don’t wanna be pissing about on the half way line, against old men who couldn’t catch a tortoise.

    These young lads got no fear and wanna be let loose.

    Better to try and win, than to keep on losing to late goals. Get out there and f ucking attack

  24. #74

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    I think that this thought process is a fallacy. Who is Giggs going pick over the youngsters? The more obvious reason that they are getting game time is because they are better than the more senior Welsh players who play in the same positions as them - not because they are being blooded or other terms that I've seen used.

    Giggs is picking the best players available to him and isn't getting the results or, perhaps, more importantly, the performances you would expect from them.
    I agree with what you say but the fallacy is expecting youngsters to hit the ground running as if they've got 50 caps.Theres nothing at all wrong with the way the manager trying to play the game but with a small pool its all about trying to make what you've got better, not throwing your toys out when we get beat a couple of times.I thought they played well against a decent if not brilliant Hungarian side who may surprise a few just as we did 4 yrs ago.

  25. #75
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: Goodnight Ryan

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    I agree with what you say but the fallacy is expecting youngsters to hit the ground running as if they've got 50 caps.Theres nothing at all wrong with the way the manager trying to play the game but with a small pool its all about trying to make what you've got better, not throwing your toys out when we get beat a couple of times.I thought they played well against a decent if not brilliant Hungarian side who may surprise a few just as we did 4 yrs ago.
    Sorry, just to clarify, my post was in relation to Pedro asking you what Giggs' plan was and you replied that you thought it was to give the youngsters experience. My argument is that it can't be a plan if he has no other choice but to play them... they pick themselves at this point due to being better than the other options.

    If he was dropping Hennessey, Williams, Allen and Bale for completely untried youngsters then I'd see that argument... But that's not close to what's happening in my opinion.

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