It is time for Giggs to go, but regardless of how bad his management skills are, the players haven't been trying very hard.

I accept to a certain point in club football when players stick two players up to their manager but for Internationals to be doing it isn't on.

There about 50 blokes on here who would love to lose their belly bellies, stop eating bacon butties and put on a Welsh shirt (to play for Wales I mean, not walk around ASDA doing the Sunday shop).