Reply With QuoteHe thinks he's the new Gandhi!
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Originally Posted by jon1959
Well that was a bit strange really ,wasn't it, because you've really got to be in a country to ask for political asylum there.
I don't especially want to join in the Tommy Robinson kicking club because I don't know a great deal about him and I'm sure there are two sides to the story. However, I think this was obviously more of a stunt than anything else.
His version of the events leading to the current conviction are certainly not true, but it is nonetheless very politically naive of the establishment to press it home. Similar offences wouldn't normally be pursued and it creates the impression , rightly or wrongly, that he has been persecuted.
An opportunity was missed to sentence him to 'time served' and therefore make it go quietly away rather than create any martyrs .
Again without taking sides, I think Mr Robinson is - not for the first time - being quite a clever politician in all this.
Is he really surprised or very upset about being imprisoned, or is that a price he's willing to pay for the sympathy and political kudos it will certainly yield L
He thinks he's the new Gandhi!
I don't know.
Maybe he's studied the success of people like Gandhi and early Irish Seperatists in gathering popular support through provoking a particular reaction ?
Maybe he's just worked it out for himself , but I'm beginning to think that he's a lot more clever than anyone thought.
He's not a very well educated man, and I'd previously considered him to be a poor advocate for those who's views he articulates, but perhaps I mis underestimated him !
https://viz.fandom.com/wiki/Roger_Irrelevant
What's that got to do with the new normal?
Feel a bit guilty about only calling him a prat earlier in the thread;-
https://twitter.com/camcamdamn/statu...11833091780609
Who does he gain political kudos from? Katie Hopkins? These are not right-wing politicians who ultimately care about the country, these individuals are fanning the flames of disenfranchised, often deprived, areas and making a huge amount of money out of spreading twisted interpretations of events.
I'm not sure I agree with your implication that the deprived and disenfranchised don't care about the country, but these are the people he'd be likely to gain political kudos with, and history tells us that they're the people who often achieve momentous change when they feel sufficiently aggrieved.
I'm not prepared to make any assumptions about the man based upon the constant withering fire of spin against him which I notice, but nor do I know enough about him or his views to support him. What I do know is that if he is widely seen as a victim of a privileged political elite which has already ignored a democratic vote and tried to enforce its will against a democratic outcome, that may lead to trouble .
Well if those who see him as some sort of victim and therefore someone to follow then they need to wake up and see Yaxley Lennon for what he is.
He has a string of previous convictions for offences such as fraud and violence. He jeopardised a court hearing which involved a number of sex offenders despite having previous warnings not to do so.
He’s benefitted immeasurably financially from his actions and has shown no remorse for the stress that the victims of the cases went through on hearing that they may have had to go though another trial after representations from the defence
There is no ‘spin’ against him, these are facts that any cursory search of the internet will provide. He’s merely a self obsessed publicist who should be thankful he got the light sentence he did.
That's a very Wales Bales like final paragraph there I must say.
If you are able to interpret what surge said as implying that "the deprived and disenfranchised don't care about the country", then I feel it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that your use of the word "spin" tells us an awful lot about your real feelings concerning the person who calls himself Tommy Robinson - that's if "the victim of a privileged political elite" was not a big enough hint.
Besides being an apparent victim, it seems that Robinson is very unfortunate in the company he keeps or, perhaps, all of the links below are just fake news?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...le-z6pb87rr2q5
https://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/20...ithin-edl.html
https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2012/...aramilitaries/
https://far-rightcriminals.com/tag/archie-sleman/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8231231.html
https://dorseteye.com/former-edl-mem...ere-was-tommy/
https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/90...-abuse-images/
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...hison-14289816
https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/04/tommy...e-boy-8817076/
https://far-rightcriminals.com/2016/...h-schoolgirls/
https://www.facebook.com/angrywhitea...5253439765616/
https://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk...year-old-girl/
One other thing, the question in the Referendum was just a straight yes or no one, there was nothing about the kind of Brexit it should be. Therefore, with that in mind, it should be said that we probably could have left the EU on 29 March as planned if the likes of the Brexit ultras in the Conservative Party and the DUP had accepted the negotiated withdrawal agreement - are they the "privileged political elite" you talk of? It's hard to argue that a democratic vote is being ignored when there have been three attempts to pass something that would enable that vote and a negotiated departure is still the policy of the two main parties in Parliament.
That's because it's a sensible position for a reasonable minded person to take
I'm afraid my point hasn't been communicated effectively if that's what you think I'm saying. There are right wing politicians I disagree with but I can recognise they ultimately care about the country and just have a different viewpoint on the process for this, I cannot say the same about Tommy Robinson or Katie Hopkins. These two are just business people who are targeting certain areas of the country, the disenfranchised and arears with greater deprivation, to increase their financial means (Tommy Robinson owned a nine-hundred thousand pound mansion!!!)without offering anything real back to their supporters.
Regarding your last sentence, if we collectively drew up characteristics of the political elite then I'd wager those who are telling you the elite are ignoring you would themselves be described by that list. If we start of with owning a house worth 900K for example.....Some of the people telling you the elite are ignoring you also tell you to ignore experts, but considering Boris Johnson's interview with Andrew O'Neil then perhaps this is taking us on a scary path.
Oh NO ! I thought you were the one person here able to see this Wales Bales bollocks for what it is because you were engaging in normal conversation. All I'll say about that is that we might as well conclude that you and I are the same person because we both spoke of Ronnie Bird's hairdressers !
Returning to the subject though, you seem to be taking my comments as supporting Tommy Robinson, even though I did say that I haven't particularly delved into the subject and the most supportive thing I've said is that I'm not going to condemn him on the say so of a media and establishment which I don't any longer trust.
I do repeat though, that he's obviously on the wrong end of a hysteria /spin campaign by various parties , and to that extent at least a fair minded person would have some sympathy with him.
Most importantly , what I was addressing was the likely outcome of these events in terms of Tommy Robinson's standing in the public mind. One thing I am able to say is that he's certainly guilty of contempt , but the general public don't understand the ins and outs of what is a fairly obscure legal area and the remarkably severe sentence, combined with the manner in which the case was conducted is likely to gain him far more political support than he might otherwise have attracted through his policies.
In a nutshell then, they're creating a martyr , and historically , that usually bites them on the arse. My comments, therefore , are about practical political outcomes rather than the merits of anyone's politics.
Now, to touch upon your last bit regarding the post referendum manoeuvrings over Brexit , well I can gather from your comments that we would disagree upon that matter, but I think all the arguments about it have already been done to death so we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on that one. What is certain is that it's divided the nation in a very serious way which doesn't seem capable of resolution by democratic duscussion at this point, and to once again refer to the lessons of history , that's a very very dangerous situation to be in.
Fair comment and well said, but I think our respective concepts of what " the elite" may be are very different indeed.
I don't come from any socialist or fake socialist direction, in fact it's fair to say that I have no allegiances to any party or defined political grouping.
I'm only too pleased to see anyone do well and I certainly don't want a share of anyone else's property. If I can put it in a straightforward way which explains briefly the relevant bit of a very complicated world view on my part, I don't like seeing certain interests tilt the pitch in a way that their own wealth and power is perpetuated at the expense of making it impossible for others to succeed upon their merits, and as a little side benefit prevent others from expressing opinions which are either unpalatable to them or might interfere with their intricate and dishonest schemes to exert illegitimate power and influence.
Maybe we should do a whole thread on the wider issues of this because it's too wide a subject to chuck into this kind of dialogue.
Laughing at all you dickheads having a go at Tommy Robinson. I couldn't give a **** about the man, but at least he has the conviction of his beliefs, unlike the wet ***** on here who post their "DISGUSTED" at such a man behind the safety of their computer. ****ing embarrassing farts
I know that Nigel Farage rallies against the elites but he's an ex-banker and has been in politics for what, 20 years? He is an elite and politician by any stretch of the word and yet he's one of the ones telling you that the political class are ignoring you. He's also making sure his children have the benefits of the EU while removing that from your children and from me. My feeling remains that most people telling you that the elite are ignoring you are in fact, usually, also the elite and the ones who are looking to support you least in return, however I agree we're moving away from topic of the thread so won't pursue it further.
No I don't think Nigel is an elite politician or a politician at all by choice, but rather because that was the necessary course of action to achieve what he considers to be a good aim.
Despite his reluctant participation in politics, he's actually the most successful and notable polititian of our age - one who achieved a seemingly impossible reversal of politics against the will of the establishment, and like William Wilberforce, therefore the only name from current politics which schoolchildren will know in 200 years time.
In order to work toward the end of this dreadful E U Project, he gave up a very successful career in the City as you ( almost) accurately say, but when talent spotted by Margaret Thatcher as a potential future PM and offered a safe Tory seat he had declined it, so you can reasonably rule out any ambition of political power as his motivation.
I'm sure you don't mean to be impolite, but you're quite wrong if you think my opinion about "elites" is based upon what Nigel or anyone else tells me. Similarly ,it's a great mistake to imagine that people who disagree with your views can only do so because they're either stupid, ill educated or wicked, or that they must have been misled by Nigel or anyone else. In fact, I would suggest to you that Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and others are successful because they represent and articulate the views of people rather than somehow telling them what to think.
I told you that my idea of "elites" , ( maybe not the best word but the one in common parlance ), has nothing to do with resentment of some imagined privileged ruling class so I'm not going to be inflamed against anyone who's been to a decent school or been successful in life.
That's an entirely different conjuring trick called socialism , and far fewer people are listening to it these days. In fact it's the methodology of the elite I'm speaking of to masquerade as socialists and egalitarians whilst jealously guarding their own unfair advantages to an historically new level where they seek political power in order to make sure that the common man has no real chance to compete or even bring about change by voting.
You see, there's nothing more elitist than the minority refusing to accept the will of the majority and justifying that by explaining that they didn't understand what they were voting for . It's a modern version of thinking that the will of the people can be disregarded because they are some sort of mindless peasants who don't know what's best for them.
I'm not offended , ( and it wouldn't matter if I were ), because I'm sure you didn't consciously mean that when you spoke of someone "telling me that the elite are ignoring me", but I wonder ...... Can't you see how large numbers of people get annoyed when their considered opinions and electoral decisions are dismissed in this way ?
Joined the Conservative Party at 14 years old, he's not the "reluctant politician" he portrays himself to be
How anyone can argue he isn't in the elite is beyond me, he went to Dulwich College, worked in the City of London, banks at the same place as the Queen and has been an elected politician since 1999
How people like him and Boris Johnson are portrayed as anti-establishment, and people believe it, is truly baffling and shows the power the newspapers in particular still hold
Well it's to do with the stuff they say and want to do, not because you think they're "posh".
I'll shock you here - educated and successful people sometimes disagree with each other too.
So if the Queen voted Brexit, that means that she is an anti-establishment figure?
I don't think she votes does she ?
The issue here is that the current establishment is in bed with a globalist agenda, of which the EU is a big component. Those who oppose the aims and intentions of this agenda, which include abolishing individual nations amongst many other nasty stuff, can and do come from any and all social and intellectual classes.
If those were her beliefs then, would that make her an anti establishment figure. Yes or no?
Yes, in this sense it would. As a matter of fact she might well think that.
The trouble is , as I said earlier to another person, that you're operating on some extinct socialist concept of " the elite" and not that which people are objecting to in this day and age.
So the Queen, the head of state, would be anti-establishment figure who isn't part of the elite? Come on mate
As I said IN THIS SENSE she would.
We did discuss what we mean by the elite in terms of this conversation , but you seem unwilling or unable to accept that it's not just
" posh people".
Since the actual elite we're talking about wants to abolish the state, it's not incredibly surprising that the head of state might oppose it.
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