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Thread: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

  1. #1

    Is Labour Anti-Semitic?


  2. #2
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Indeed.

    https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis...t-to-be-aired/

  3. #3
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Also the unreported (except for sites like The Canary) Jewish voices supporting Chris Williamsom and the Labour Party:

    https://www.thecanary.co/trending/20...caust-victims/

    https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis...is-williamson/

    Meanwhile in Guardianland the angle of reporting was (via a local member of the Jewish Labour Movement who fell out with Chris Williamson) this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tisemitism-row

    Bizarrely it claims that Chris Williamson was once a friend of the Jewish community but became an anti-semite to ingratiate himself with the Corbyn inner circle! That is a new one even for the Guardian (and I thought they had used every attack imaginable). It is cynical and dishonest, but it probably works.

    And the latest is the resignation of 3 Labour peers - with a robust response from Labour reported for once.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48923671

  4. #4

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    I think 3 labour MP, s resigning the whip today wouldn't be right wing media, one of them pretty damming!!!,,??????? Not read anything yet, on the news driving home this evening, perhaps I have misnterpreted the radio.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Panodrama strikes again!

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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    Panodrama strikes again!
    Makes you sick don't it.

  7. #7

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    I'm sure the media is playing this out ,but I also believe there is a nasty element within the Labour family that are capable of this stuff .

  8. #8

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Ah the Canary.

    That completely unbiased web site which is a bastion of truth and fairness!!

  9. #9

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I'm sure the media is playing this out ,but I also believe there is a nasty element within the Labour family that are capable of this stuff .

    ‘not liking the bad old Jew crosses political lines its ingrained in our nasty society to dislike someone, some race some constitutions ,its everywhere in the Labour Party and In the Conservative part and its supporters , like it or not ‘

    To paraphrase someone last week.

  10. #10

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    ‘not liking the bad old Jew crosses political lines its ingrained in our nasty society to dislike someone, some race some constitutions ,its everywhere in the Labour Party and In the Conservative part and its supporters , like it or not ‘

    To paraphrase someone last week.
    Indeed it is its just taking me by surprise how bad it is these days in the modern society .

    I always had the nasty Tories down for that anyway , but not the Labour party , I thought they were better than this morally .

  11. #11

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Indeed it is its just taking me by surprise how bad it is these days in the modern society .

    I always had the nasty Tories down for that anyway , but not the Labour party , I thought they were better than this morally .
    Two wrongs don’t make a right but can someone tell me the difference between Anti semitism and Islamofobia ?

  12. #12
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Indeed it is its just taking me by surprise how bad it is these days in the modern society .

    I always had the nasty Tories down for that anyway , but not the Labour party , I thought they were better than this morally .
    There is an organised smear campaign against Corbyn that's been going on for quite a while. I wonder if Boris isn't thinking it may be a good idea to hold a general election in the not too distant future?

  13. #13

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    I rarely reply to these threads anymore due to the abuse and caveman comments but the short answer is yes.

    Certainly some of the current leadership, party management and some members are anti-semites.

    As explained last night, it is an issue with the left with regard to Israel/Palestine/Zionism.

    Respect to the whistleblowers featured last night, I was under the impression that they were part of the problem too but stand corrected.

    The current situation in the UK regarding this is very concerning for me as a Jew to witness.

  14. #14

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    I rarely reply to these threads anymore due to the abuse and caveman comments but the short answer is yes.

    Certainly some of the current leadership, party management and some members are anti-semites.

    As explained last night, it is an issue with the left with regard to Israel/Palestine/Zionism.

    Respect to the whistleblowers featured last night, I was under the impression that they were part of the problem too but stand corrected.

    The current situation in the UK regarding this is very concerning for me as a Jew to witness.
    I actually know one of the whistle blowers , I was struck by how genuine they spoke and bravely appeared .

    Interestingly there were young people speaking out , and they were new recruits , within the new Corbyn era and not employed form the old Blairite guard , so that default excuse when criticism is leveled at Corbyn is a bit tired now .

    There was enough strong actual evidenced to suggest there is a real issue

    It appears he Corbyn era has sucked back in those old seventies militant groups, that have harbored Anti Semitic views .

    Those 20 odd Labour workers who appeared and spoke are either lairs or telling the truth.

    I suggest all Labour voters should view the program and decide for your self .



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006p8c

    All very sad for a lot of Labour voters

  15. #15

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    There is an organised smear campaign
    This is against Corbyn that's been going on for quite a while. I wonder if Boris isn't thinking it may be a good idea to hold a general election in the not too distant future?
    BBC would be in an awkward pickle, clearly do not want bojo and clearly looking to oust Dustbin, who would they back 😂😂😂😂😂

  16. #16

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I'm sure the media is playing this out ,but I also believe there is a nasty element within the Labour family that are capable of this stuff .
    I would agree with that. I also can see that sometimes, some would argue more frequently than that, accusations of anti-Semitism follows criticism of Israeli policy rather than anti-Semitic behaviour. It's a powerful criticism (accusations of anti-Semitism) and it's a powerfully damaging and horrible action (anti-Semitic behaviour) when it occurs.

    Labour needs to work out how to make sure that anti-Semitic behaviour isn't given a home it the party because it's (the Labour party) whole ethos is built on anti-racism.

  17. #17

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    What irks me, is that today many Labour MPs have come out and said "we must do more to combat AS"

    Well bloody do something! Writing letters isn't going to cut it

  18. #18

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    What irks me, is that today many Labour MPs have come out and said "we must do more to combat AS"

    Well bloody do something! Writing letters isn't going to cut it
    There is a problem and it should have been dealt with by now but is it really widespread within the Labour Party? I’m not convinced. I suspect the Tories are more anti Semitic and without doubt islamophobic but it doesn’t get reported.

  19. #19

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    There is a problem and it should have been dealt with by now but is it really widespread within the Labour Party? I’m not convinced. I suspect the Tories are more anti Semitic and without doubt islamophobic but it doesn’t get reported.
    It is rife throughout the party. AS is a characteristic of the hard left.

  20. #20

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    What irks me, is that today many Labour MPs have come out and said "we must do more to combat AS"

    Well bloody do something! Writing letters isn't going to cut it
    The bulk of them are using the issue as a blunt weapon to smash a leader whilst a few are sweating a small majority in a constituency where losing their Jewish vote would kill them off. Once you strip those ones back you are left with some that I would consider a bit mentally pro-israel and then a few who generally care about the plight of Jewish people.

    Hence why they aren't doing much other than wingeing on TV and social media.

  21. #21

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    I rarely reply to these threads anymore due to the abuse and caveman comments but the short answer is yes.

    Certainly some of the current leadership, party management and some members are anti-semites.

    As explained last night, it is an issue with the left with regard to Israel/Palestine/Zionism.

    Respect to the whistleblowers featured last night, I was under the impression that they were part of the problem too but stand corrected.

    The current situation in the UK regarding this is very concerning for me as a Jew to witness.
    Can't argue with any of that really.

    Do you think bigotry is more prominent in the Labour party than other political parties or the population at large?

  22. #22

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearcey3 View Post
    There is a problem and it should have been dealt with by now but is it really widespread within the Labour Party? I’m not convinced. I suspect the Tories are more anti Semitic and without doubt islamophobic but it doesn’t get reported.
    There was an insane poll recently amongst the Tory membership re: attitudes towards Muslims.

    54% of members think that Islam is a threat to the British way of life.

  23. #23

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    The bulk of them are using the issue as a blunt weapon to smash a leader whilst a few are sweating a small majority in a constituency where losing their Jewish vote would kill them off. Once you strip those ones back you are left with some that I would consider a bit mentally pro-israel and then a few who generally care about the plight of Jewish people.

    Hence why they aren't doing much other than wingeing on TV and social media.
    JC could have dealt with this by now, he has chosen not to which tells you everything you need to know.

    You can not reconcile JC wanting to (for example) nationalise utilities, builder more houses, introduce the living wages etc. with his anti Semitic views and his harbouring of those who think the same.

  24. #24

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Can't argue with any of that really.

    Do you think bigotry is more prominent in the Labour party than other political parties or the population at large?
    Another issue with AS is the “but other racism....” point. Yes racism exists in all forms against all peoples in the UK today.

    This thread is on AS but in reply to your question, no I do not think bigotry is more prevalent in Labour than the other parties BUT since the hard Left have taken over it is without doubt a breeding ground for AS more so (by a long way) than any other party

  25. #25

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    JC could have dealt with this by now, he has chosen not to which tells you everything you need to know.

    You can not reconcile JC wanting to (for example) nationalise utilities, builder more houses, introduce the living wages etc. with his anti Semitic views and his harbouring of those who think the same.
    2nd point I take, he appears to have run a ship that 'allows' people to say things that they shouldn't. What has JC said himself that you deem clear cut enough to say with confidence that he has anti-semitic views?

  26. #26

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    Another issue with AS is the “but other racism....” point. Yes racism exists in all forms against all peoples in the UK today.

    This thread is on AS but in reply to your question, no I do not think bigotry is more prevalent in Labour than the other parties BUT since the hard Left have taken over it is without doubt a breeding ground for AS more so (by a long way) than any other party
    That's fair enough. I suppose supporters will always see it as a 'media smear' if other forms of racism aren't given similar coverage.

    Do you think the language by certain prominent Jewish organisations is called for or helpful? You have been quite measured, some say that JC's leadership is an 'existential threat to their existence' which is a sentence that has pretty grave implications when looked at in a historical context.

    This has become so polarised that nobody involved is being objective anymore.

  27. #27
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossi Benayoun View Post
    I rarely reply to these threads anymore due to the abuse and caveman comments but the short answer is yes.

    Certainly some of the current leadership, party management and some members are anti-semites.

    As explained last night, it is an issue with the left with regard to Israel/Palestine/Zionism.

    Respect to the whistleblowers featured last night, I was under the impression that they were part of the problem too but stand corrected.

    The current situation in the UK regarding this is very concerning for me as a Jew to witness.

    I missed the Panorama programme last night but what is the evidence that anti-semitism is rife on the left of British politics and why is a political view on Israel/Palestine/Zionism a cause of that? I was active in left-wing political organisations through my late teens and twenties, and later was in the Labour Party for 27 years (up to 2013) and I honestly never saw anti-semtism. A disproportionately high number of my fellow party members were Jewish, and because of their personal background were often the most active as both anti-Zionists and anti-racists - including the defence of Jewish communities and synagogues from neo-Nazis.

    This stuff about anti-semitism being baked in to the 'far left' or 'hard left' or whatever other label is relatively new to me - and counter to all my experience. It seems to have appeared in the last 5 years accompanied by Dave Rich books, Guardian columnists opinion pieces and from the large pool of Blairite MPs who are enthusiastic members of the Labour Friends of Israel group.

    What are you calling out as anti-semitism? If it is abuse or hatred or descrimination aimed at Jewish people because of their ethnicity or religion then I agree absolutely. It must be stamped out and anyone in Labour guilty of that should be expelled - and subject to police investigation if appropriate. I have seen examples of this and they disgust me.

    But a lot of the examples and most prominent cases I have seen in the past 3 years have been allegations of anti semitism based on opposition to a political ideology (at the heart of the Israeli state that led to and excused ethnic cleansing and apartheid), or the policies of the Israeli government, or satirical social media posts that often come from Jewish critics of Israel but are denounced on a literal reading when re-posted or shared (like the Norman Finkelstein cartoon of Israel as a US state that Naz Shah MP was pilloried for). Many of the high profile cases brought by Labour against its own members had the charge changed from anti-semitism to bringing the party into disrepute - like Marc Wadsworth, Tony Greenstein and Jackie Walker - because once the mud had stuck it was clear that they were not guilty of anti-semitism.

    We now have a situation where the Labour Party (and UK government) have adopted not only the IHRA definition of anti-semitism but all the examples attached to it - including a lot that are about Israel and not Jews. The BDS movement (one of the few peaceful forms of resistance open to Palestinians and their supporters) is denounced as anti-semitic (including winning a vote in the German parliament recently - though not yet enacted). Many other forms of solidarity with occupied Palestinians are also condemned in the same way. The Labour right (especially sections of the PLP), Israel and the Israeli Embassy, sections of the media (in my view the Guardian and BBC are amongst the worst when it come to this issue) have acted to move the goalposts and weaponise allegations of anti-semitism with the twin aims of protecting Israel from criticism and deposing Corbyn (either by falsely accusing him of racism or by making his leadership untenable).

    One of the most troubling arguments around the conflation of anti-Zionism (opposition to a political ideology) with anti-semitism (racial/ethnic/religios hatred) is arguement from some Jewish organisations and individuals that Zionism is both an integral part of their identity (and so to attack Zionsim is to attack Jewish people) and that it has so many meanings that the term becomes meaningless. As an argument to gag opponents it has been effective - even if many socialist, orthodox and humanist Jewish people are openly anti-Zionsist. But it is also an argument that gets a free pass - as did a similar argument in South Africa for far too long - that separation and white supremacy was an integral part of Boer self-identity.

  28. #28

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    help

  29. #29

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post

    What is very confusing for, over so many decades Jewish people found the socialist point of view and Labour a good political home and funded it , Jewish Labour Movement was founded in 1903 .
    Anti-semitic trope alert

  30. #30

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Anti-semitic trope alert
    what does that actual mean.
    do you not see any problems within the party

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