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Thread: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

  1. #51

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the antisemitism row, I think this is going to be very damaging for Jeremy Corbyn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exclude-racism
    I wonder whether they paid for that themselves.

    What Watson appears to be advocating is a system whereby people are guilty until proven innocent if the evidence 'is irrefutable', presumably he thinks he should be the person who makes that call.

    Reality is they are just looking for a way to boot people out without due process.

  2. #52
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the antisemitism row, I think this is going to be very damaging for Jeremy Corbyn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exclude-racism
    It definitely will damage Corbyn - which is clearly the intention.

    This feels like the third or fourth time since he was elected that there has been a co-ordinated public pile-on from his parliamentary and media opponents - using Brexit and/or anti-semitism allegations as the issue of choice. The Chicken Coup was the most orchestrated but there have been several others - most recently led by Tom Watson or Tribune.

    As I have said in other posts, I am not a Labour Party member and I am not very impressed by Corbyn's party leadership skills - I don't think he ever wanted the job, didn't expect to win first time, and is way out of his comfort zone - but most of the attacks seem to me to be dishonest and cynical. There is maybe a better chance of a General Election now before the end of October than was thought a few months ago and this might be the last chance for the so-called centrists in Labour (Labour right may be more accurate) to change the leader before that might happen.

  3. #53

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Best I can describe this issue (not asking anyone to agree with me , as both parties are awful) modern politics is awful :

    The difference being, Corbyn and his inner circle are anti-Semitic and have facilitated / encouraged/ not discouraged , anti-Semitism within the Labour party and allowed it to fester and get worse ,and even attack it's own, isolating huge portions of its party mechanism.

    May has not facilitated and encouraged/ not discouraged Islamophobia in the Conservative party.

    I am sure some Islamophobia would be found in both parties.

    Labour appears to prefer the Muslim vote .

    Muslims can t times appear anti semitic.

    Bit like Brexit you could mirror this across society .

    The trick is, how do you deal and manage it , or are seen to deal with or manage it ,or want too.

    Is it better to have or take a side ,when looking for votes.

    Goverment and leadership is about managing and dealing with subject matters that relate to all of society .

    For the many ,not the few , will stick in my mind for a very long time to come .

    Yes media plays on it , but you have to feed it ,to let it grow and become what it is now .

  4. #54

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    I don't know much of the inner circle (non elected people) so I can't comment on them.

    Would someone who hates Jewish be a sponsor for a motion such as this?

    https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/40500

    It didn't happen obviously because brown was on his way out and the incoming conservative party was obsessed with immigration numbers and saw that issue as their primary vote winner.

    Corbyn is a poor leader and probably has quite entrenched views but the idea that he is personally anti Semitic or racist just doesn't stack up.

  5. #55

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    So, what are you saying ? Hitler was joking or lying or something ?

    I've had very similar debates about this before and they never reach agreement, but I'm game for a laugh and I'll post something of the nature you've suggested tomorrow. I've sat here like a silly bugger reading this site and posting till 3am , so I'd better leave it for tonight, but I'll come back to it .
    When is the debate going to start. My popcorn has gone stale.

  6. #56

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    When is the debate going to start. My popcorn has gone stale.
    There's no debate to be had. Ronnies told you the answer. Hitler was a socialist because the clue is in the name of the party. Same reason that North Korea and East Germany are/were democratic.

  7. #57
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Best I can describe this issue (not asking anyone to agree with me , as both parties are awful) modern politics is awful :

    The difference being, Corbyn and his inner circle are anti-Semitic and have facilitated / encouraged/ not discouraged , anti-Semitism within the Labour party and allowed it to fester and get worse ,and even attack it's own, isolating huge portions of its party mechanism.

    May has not facilitated and encouraged/ not discouraged Islamophobia in the Conservative party.

    I am sure some Islamophobia would be found in both parties.

    Labour appears to prefer the Muslim vote .

    Muslims can t times appear anti semitic.

    Bit like Brexit you could mirror this across society .

    The trick is, how do you deal and manage it , or are seen to deal with or manage it ,or want too.

    Is it better to have or take a side ,when looking for votes.

    Goverment and leadership is about managing and dealing with subject matters that relate to all of society .

    For the many ,not the few , will stick in my mind for a very long time to come .

    Yes media plays on it , but you have to feed it ,to let it grow and become what it is now .

    For someone throwing around anti-semitism allegations you seem very comfortable peddling that particular racist trope.

    It has underpinned a lot of the political and media attacks on Corbyn and Labour - crudely that Muslims are anti-semites and there are a lot of Muslim members of the Labour Party, and Muslim activists in the international solidarity campaign with Palestinians, so Corbyn Labour panders to their inherent prejudice and bigotry. It usually goes unchallenged.

  8. #58

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    There's no debate to be had. Ronnies told you the answer. Hitler was a socialist because the clue is in the name of the party. Same reason that North Korea and East Germany are/were democratic.
    I'm upping sticks and moving to the Congo.

  9. #59

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I'm upping sticks and moving to the Congo.
    No change then

    From the day of the arguably ill-prepared independence of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the tensions between the powerful leaders of the political elite, such as Joseph Kasa Vubu, Patrice Lumumba, Moise Tshombe, Joseph Mobutu and others, jeopardize the political stability of the new state. From Tshombe's secession of the Katanga, to the assassination of Lumumba, to the two coups d'état of Mobutu, the country has known periods of true nationwide peace, but virtually no period of genuine democratic rule.

  10. #60

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    No change then

    From the day of the arguably ill-prepared independence of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the tensions between the powerful leaders of the political elite, such as Joseph Kasa Vubu, Patrice Lumumba, Moise Tshombe, Joseph Mobutu and others, jeopardize the political stability of the new state. From Tshombe's secession of the Katanga, to the assassination of Lumumba, to the two coups d'état of Mobutu, the country has known periods of true nationwide peace, but virtually no period of genuine democratic rule.
    But they said they were democratic, are you accusing them of lying? Ronnie won't have it.

  11. #61

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    But they said they were democratic, are you accusing them of lying? Ronnie won't have it.
    The leadership feels Democratic and thats what counts .

  12. #62

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    For someone throwing around anti-semitism allegations you seem very comfortable peddling that particular racist trope.

    It has underpinned a lot of the political and media attacks on Corbyn and Labour - crudely that Muslims are anti-semites and there are a lot of Muslim members of the Labour Party, and Muslim activists in the international solidarity campaign with Palestinians, so Corbyn Labour panders to their inherent prejudice and bigotry. It usually goes unchallenged.
    I'm not throwing anti antisemitism around I think that's been done very well enough by the perpetrators of such comments , and they are a matter of record and investigation , one can either say its happening, or one can say it is not .

  13. #63
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    I'm not throwing anti antisemitism around I think that's been done very well enough by the perpetrators of such comments , and they are a matter of record and investigation , one can either say its happening, or one can say it is not .
    Eh? Anti anti-semitism? You claimed Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite. You perpetrated that comment. Margaret Hodge obviously agrees with you - or at least she says she does. I think you are both totally wrong. But you are clearly happy to label him a racist. At the same time you label Muslims in general as anti-semitic (or appearing to be - whatever that means). It is a racist trope (or maybe an ethno-religious one). Doesn't sound good from anyone, but especially not from someone calling out others as racist!

  14. #64

    Re: Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Eh? Anti anti-semitism? You claimed Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite. You perpetrated that comment. Margaret Hodge obviously agrees with you - or at least she says she does. I think you are both totally wrong. But you are clearly happy to label him a racist. At the same time you label Muslims in general as anti-semitic (or appearing to be - whatever that means). It is a racist trope (or maybe an ethno-religious one). Doesn't sound good from anyone, but especially not from someone calling out others as racist!
    Yeh its all fine .

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