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Thread: Brexit and trade

  1. #26

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    It doesn't have a history, it is an ideology, a textbook definition. There are instances of it being implemented by people who inevitably use the conditions created to help themselves.

    I feel the need to point that out because the majority of people who denounce the concept socialism using evidence of historical implementations do so with the intention of explaining why things simply can't be more equal in our society. It is nonsense and creates this polarisation, you have to nail your colours to one mast or the other despite your true positon being somewhere in the middle.

    That being said, you still haven't convinced me that Hitler implemented a socialist model. On my psychic abilities you miss my point, this guy is almost the only academic who agrees with you and I have read his paper on this topic so it was likely to be where you were going.

    Oh and on the issue of fanaticism. In multiple threads now you have trotted out the 'socialism is evil' shtick despite it having not much relevance. You are the one who sounds fanatical, I am simply trying to bring you back to reality my friend.
    There's a poster on here that you may know intimately who, despite telling us for the past couple of years that there is no such thing as right and left in politics any more, has recently taken to throwing around labels such as "socialist" and "communist" willynilly. He's started doing this presumably because Donald Trump and the alt right have started to use those terms to describe anyone who isn't on their side - hence the absurdity in this thread whereby Theresa May, someone whose political reputation floundered because of her desire to put the Conservative party before the country, is a socialist.

    When I read some of the great puppet masters posts these days, I can't help but think of him as a Rick from the Young Ones in reverse - switch the word "facist" for "socialist" or "communist" in this video and you could be watching Wales Bales!


  2. #27

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    There's a poster on here that you may know intimately who, despite telling us for the past couple of years that there is no such thing as right and left in politics any more, has recently taken to throwing around labels such as "socialist" and "communist" willynilly. He's started doing this presumably because Donald Trump and the alt right have started to use those terms to describe anyone who isn't on their side - hence the absurdity in this thread whereby Theresa May, someone whose political reputation floundered because of her desire to put the Conservative party before the country, is a socialist.

    When I read some of the great puppet masters posts these days, I can't help but think of him as a Rick from the Young Ones in reverse - switch the word "facist" for "socialist" or "communist" in this video and you could be watching Wales Bales!

    Ha ha yes it’s ‘Wik’ alright 😂😂

  3. #28

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    There's only two posters on here who know for certain whether you and Wales Bales are the same person, but most sane, "normal" people would conclude when reading a post in the name of Wales Bales that reads like it was posted by you that you are. That's the evidence that brought about these claims and so, in a matter which, let's face it, is not very important in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to cock up v conspiracy, people, hardly surprisingly, opt for a pretty funny versio of the former.

    Aha! Poor, deluded fools that they are, they have fallen into your trap! According to the one or two of you, the whole thing is some sort of experiment designed to prove how gullible people are when faced with a subtle ploy laid by the master puppeteer (at least that's how he sees himself) that is Wales Bales, while you, who, as a great conjurer would say, have never met this man in my life, are perfectly happy to be his stooge.

    Those are the two possibilities then - seems to me that either one of them amount to distinctly odd behaviour.

    Ah, but it's not fair to accuse me of anything in all this .

    Yes I can see that Wales Bales is a bit more intelligent than his adversaries and so I can work out by reading the posts that he's taken their rather stupid conclusions and led them on - giving then the rope to hang themselves as we used to say.

    I've done nothing to encourage any of this except unwittingly express opinions which are apparently similar to his, and do so in a similar language and style . I've posted an app which anyone could use to establish whether I'm Wales Bales, and in fact I've pm'd the moderator asking that he check and post the result . I can do no more, and I've never taken any part in any " schemes" or acted as anyone's " stooge".

    I've no idea who Wales Bales is, but perhaps he is the product of a similar education or background to me. Such commonalities sometimes result in similar styles and even similar views.

    I wonder whether you'd be kind enough, then, to withdraw your statement that I have taken part in " distinctly odd behaviour ", or explain why ANY of this is my fault.

  4. #29

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Ah, but it's not fair to accuse me of anything in all this .

    Yes I can see that Wales Bales is a bit more intelligent than his adversaries and so I can work out by reading the posts that he's taken their rather stupid conclusions and led them on - giving then the rope to hang themselves as we used to say.

    I've done nothing to encourage any of this except unwittingly express opinions which are apparently similar to his, and do so in a similar language and style . I've posted an app which anyone could use to establish whether I'm Wales Bales, and in fact I've pm'd the moderator asking that he check and post the result . I can do no more, and I've never taken any part in any " schemes" or acted as anyone's " stooge".

    I've no idea who Wales Bales is, but perhaps he is the product of a similar education or background to me. Such commonalities sometimes result in similar styles and even similar views.

    I wonder whether you'd be kind enough, then, to withdraw your statement that I have taken part in " distinctly odd behaviour ", or explain why ANY of this is my fault.
    All I'll say about that lot is that if I was a new poster on a site and, within a day or two of me starting to post someone had posted something like Wales Bales did, I would be asking what on earth is going on, not praising the person who used my name in vain for being so clever. As I say, distinctly odd behaviour by Wales Bales either way (but I've become used to that) and distinctly odd behaviour by you if you really aren't him.

  5. #30

    Re: Brexit and trade

    I think I did ask what on earth was going on. I think I did invite you to check it and post you a link to an app where you could do that.
    Let me ask you a question then , what exactly would you have done to resolve it ?

    Yes , Wales bales was a bit mischievous tying these nutters up in knots and using a web they'd spun to do it, but in fairness he didn't start it, did he ? I came in here in all good faith , I didn't do anything wrong and a few people who obviously had history with WB immediately started going for me.

    He made them look like the stupid oafs which I regret to say they apparently are, ( based on the way they've ganged up on me for no reason), and so yes I can appreciate his guile and intelligence. He hasn't trolled me or insulted me as this bunch of nutters have, so yes I would tend to take his side , wouldn't I ?

    If you'd like to suggest any way in which I can prove I'm not WB, ( which I certainly shouldn't have to) , let me know and I'll do it just for the sake of stopping this bloody nonsense.

    You're a respected figure who's run a Cardiff City blog I was aware of before I'd heard of WB or this forum, so you're the last person I'd expect to be joining in this crap. Don't misunderstand this - I'm not complaining because I'm very much big and ugly enough to stand up fir myself and so it won't effect me in that way, but the whole thing is no more than common or garden bullying , or attempted bullying anyway. I think I'm able to tell enough about you from your writings here and on your blog to think that you wouldn't deliberately take part in that, so I honestly wish you'd think it through again.

  6. #31
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    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    All I'll say about that lot is that if I was a new poster on a site and, within a day or two of me starting to post someone had posted something like Wales Bales did, I would be asking what on earth is going on, not praising the person who used my name in vain for being so clever. As I say, distinctly odd behaviour by Wales Bales either way (but I've become used to that) and distinctly odd behaviour by you if you really aren't him.
    duck.jpg


  7. #32

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post

    Okay.... And may we regard this as a test of your judgement in other matters you might comment upon from time to time ?

  8. #33

    Re: Brexit and trade

    You are correct in that Wetherspoons have used trade deals negotiated by the EU to source cheaper products from non-EU countries.

    It is also true that we will lose access to these trade agreements should we leave the EU without a deal.

    As Ronnie/WB points put we can negotiate trade deals with any German supervision.

    However, when negotiating any deal I would rather have the clout of a 508m potential customers rather than 66m customers.

  9. #34

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by PontBlue View Post
    You are correct in that Wetherspoons have used trade deals negotiated by the EU to source cheaper products from non-EU countries.

    It is also true that we will lose access to these trade agreements should we leave the EU without a deal.

    As Ronnie/WB points put we can negotiate trade deals with any German supervision.

    However, when negotiating any deal I would rather have the clout of a 508m potential customers rather than 66m customers.


    That's not entirely valid because a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for, and 66m is.
    Are you also volunteering for the dunce's cap regarding myself and WB then ?

  10. #35

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    That's not entirely valid because a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for, and 66m is.
    Are you also volunteering for the dunce's cap regarding myself and WB then ?
    So every country with a population of more than X has exactly the same clout in trade negotiations?

    What is X?

  11. #36

    Re: Brexit and trade

    That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

    If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

    Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

    We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.

  12. #37

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

    If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

    Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

    We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.
    Remember the days when Liam Fox used to talk about how easy getting trade deals would be once we left the EU? Now Brexiteers are reduced to this sort of well, we still won't be as bad as some others type of thing.

  13. #38

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    I think I did ask what on earth was going on. I think I did invite you to check it and post you a link to an app where you could do that.
    Let me ask you a question then , what exactly would you have done to resolve it ?

    Yes , Wales bales was a bit mischievous tying these nutters up in knots and using a web they'd spun to do it, but in fairness he didn't start it, did he ? I came in here in all good faith , I didn't do anything wrong and a few people who obviously had history with WB immediately started going for me.

    He made them look like the stupid oafs which I regret to say they apparently are, ( based on the way they've ganged up on me for no reason), and so yes I can appreciate his guile and intelligence. He hasn't trolled me or insulted me as this bunch of nutters have, so yes I would tend to take his side , wouldn't I ?

    If you'd like to suggest any way in which I can prove I'm not WB, ( which I certainly shouldn't have to) , let me know and I'll do it just for the sake of stopping this bloody nonsense.

    You're a respected figure who's run a Cardiff City blog I was aware of before I'd heard of WB or this forum, so you're the last person I'd expect to be joining in this crap. Don't misunderstand this - I'm not complaining because I'm very much big and ugly enough to stand up fir myself and so it won't effect me in that way, but the whole thing is no more than common or garden bullying , or attempted bullying anyway. I think I'm able to tell enough about you from your writings here and on your blog to think that you wouldn't deliberately take part in that, so I honestly wish you'd think it through again.
    I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

    Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

    What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.

  14. #39

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

    If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

    Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

    We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.
    'a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for'

  15. #40

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

    Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

    What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.
    It's probably worth mentioning that WB made that post after a lot of people had already spotted that he was also posting as ronniebird. The slipup just confirmed it, but didn't create it.

    I expect he started the new account because a number of posters (I could easily name four or five) have said that they don't want to interact with him any more and as he's a little addicted to CCMB he decided to start a new one.

    I'd also mention that when he started the WalesBales account, he pretended he wasn't gluey for a few weeks. All this is nothing new.

  16. #41

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    It's got everything to do with what you posted. Specifically you mentioned Weatherspoons I think, but my reply covered the wider view, that's all.

    I know you mean well and you probably think remain would be best - it's just a matter of judgement really.

    Unfortunately of course, we must consider how wide of the mark you are on the Wales Bales thing in weighing your ability to make judgements mustn't we ?

    Think of it like this, W-B and Ronnie B must -ipso facto - half NOT be....... You see ?
    No it didn't. It was just vague, irrelevant waffle about the British empire then drivel about democracy and acceptance that people have different views.

    However, mine aren't views. Wetherspoon's ability to buy cheaper goods from outside the EU is as a result of EU membership. That's not a view. That's fact. You seem confident the UK can get better deals than the EU. Economists, educated people in these fields and many politicians don't share that confidence. Yours seems to be built on the former building of the British empire, which was built up by force, attacking other countries, genecide and terror. Those days are gone. Thankfully.

    Last question - what can the UK offer to other countries that would give them better deals with those countries than we currently have through EU membership? Specifics would give this answer credibility, but they will be fact checked. Over to you.

  17. #42

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Remember the days when Liam Fox used to talk about how easy getting trade deals would be once we left the EU? Now Brexiteers are reduced to this sort of well, we still won't be as bad as some others type of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

    Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

    What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.


    Well look, for one thing someone has been fair enough to point out that WB didn't do his Rope a Dope till after half the forum was accusing me of being him.

    I don't know ANY of these people and so I'm an objective observer to various groups doing battle. I don't play games like that myself, and I was indeed initially mystified when WB did that. I wondered what he was up to but it didn't take me long to work out that he was winding them up and, whether or not I liked that it was quite clever . I said so purely on the basis of credit where credits due - in the little games some people are obviously playing he won by a very long way.

    As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

    The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.

  18. #43

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    No it didn't. It was just vague, irrelevant waffle about the British empire then drivel about democracy and acceptance that people have different views.

    However, mine aren't views. Wetherspoon's ability to buy cheaper goods from outside the EU is as a result of EU membership. That's not a view. That's fact. You seem confident the UK can get better deals than the EU. Economists, educated people in these fields and many politicians don't share that confidence. Yours seems to be built on the former building of the British empire, which was built up by force, attacking other countries, genecide and terror. Those days are gone. Thankfully.

    Last question - what can the UK offer to other countries that would give them better deals with those countries than we currently have through EU membership? Specifics would give this answer credibility, but they will be fact checked. Over to you.

    Ignoring all the silly abusive crap, I'll answer the question briefly.
    Language, cultural and colonial links , less red tape and regulation and perhaps tax inducements. The ability to offer such inducements without EU approval.
    Case in point would be, as I mentioned before, Jamaican bananas which are cheaper and of higher quality but effectively banned because the EU have agreed to instead import crappy South and Central American bananas via Germany thus closing down a big South Wales industry and crapping on the heads of a former colony which has had its own economy wrecked by the EU too. In turn perhaps they'd return to importing UK goods instead of American one's and there's be a small but helpful market.
    I could give 100 examples of a similar nature where we could and would benefit from putting British interests first, rather than what the EU bureaucracy considers most beneficial to their project to create a superstate there.

  19. #44

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Ignoring all the silly abusive crap, I'll answer the question briefly.
    Language, cultural and colonial links , less red tape and regulation and perhaps tax inducements. The ability to offer such inducements without EU approval.
    Case in point would be, as I mentioned before, Jamaican bananas which are cheaper and of higher quality but effectively banned because the EU have agreed to instead import crappy South and Central American bananas via Germany thus closing down a big South Wales industry and crapping on the heads of a former colony which has had its own economy wrecked by the EU too. In turn perhaps they'd return to importing UK goods instead of American one's and there's be a small but helpful market.
    I could give 100 examples of a similar nature where we could and would benefit from putting British interests first, rather than what the EU bureaucracy considers most beneficial to their project to create a superstate there.

    Just by saying ‘colonial links’ seems that you’re hankering after an imperial past that has long gone

  20. #45

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Well look, for one thing someone has been fair enough to point out that WB didn't do his Rope a Dope till after half the forum was accusing me of being him.

    I don't know ANY of these people and so I'm an objective observer to various groups doing battle. I don't play games like that myself, and I was indeed initially mystified when WB did that. I wondered what he was up to but it didn't take me long to work out that he was winding them up and, whether or not I liked that it was quite clever . I said so purely on the basis of credit where credits due - in the little games some people are obviously playing he won by a very long way.

    As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

    The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.
    You, and your alleged alter ego, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourselves if you really think half of the forum were discussing who you were and I say that as someone who has spent too much time doing it recently - I have had my say on the matter and, having done so, I'll leave it there.

  21. #46

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2 View Post
    Just by saying ‘colonial links’ seems that you’re hankering after an imperial past that has long gone

    Well that's a bit of mind reading on your part really.
    There are a lot of things to do with colonial links other than what you seem to be taking. It's just shorthand for historical connections really ,such as those with Jamaica as I mentioned , where they speak English and supported us in many wars. Their economy was ruined by EU banana agreements, as was Trinidads oil refinery - I'd say we owe them a loyalty and whether you like it or not many people in the Commonwealth and former Empire , ( much of which wasn't acquired by conquest) have connections with Britain and would like to trade with us.

  22. #47

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    Well that's a bit of mind reading on your part really.
    There are a lot of things to do with colonial links other than what you seem to be taking. It's just shorthand for historical connections really ,such as those with Jamaica as I mentioned , where they speak English and supported us in many wars. Their economy was ruined by EU banana agreements, as was Trinidads oil refinery - I'd say we owe them a loyalty and whether you like it or not many people in the Commonwealth and former Empire , ( much of which wasn't acquired by conquest) have connections with Britain and would like to trade with us.
    I get your point and its a very valid one , commonwealth countries have suffered think theresabout 52 of them

    http://thecommonwealth.org/media/new...th-post-brexit

  23. #48

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieBird View Post
    As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

    The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.
    You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it?

  24. #49

    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it?
    Yes i'll second that , keep it going ,dont give in , if you dont follow the narrow narrative left agenda ,your a misfit and you get personally attacked ,remind you of anything from the new modern politics agenda ?

  25. #50
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    Re: Brexit and trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it?
    Unbelievable.....

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