Would not be shocked.
Then we will see this politcal board explode with venom and spite, as people fail to control their personal attacks beacuse of simple differences of opinion.
Cant wait.
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Would not be shocked.
Then we will see this politcal board explode with venom and spite, as people fail to control their personal attacks beacuse of simple differences of opinion.
Cant wait.
I'm sure Wales-Bales and/or Ronnie will try to restrain themselves.Originally Posted by life on mars
I don't talk about politics much, it's a mugs game.
Ronnie has an annoying habit of pressing the space bar before a question mark; Wales-Bales never does. Therefore I must conclude they are different people and I've never thought otherwise.
Who am I ?
One of the benefits of never voting is it's easy to rise above the red-blue fisticuffs. The primary reason I stopped voting after the 1997 General Election was that the proceeding two years convinced me both parties relentlessly pursued an identical agenda.
I totally agree, it's more fun being a neautral observer, and you have a clearer view of the ongoing malfeasance. As soon as you pick a side your thought processes become clouded, and you become highly susceptible to suggestion.
One of the benefits of never voting is it's easy to rise above the red-blue fisticuffs. The primary reason I stopped voting after the 1997 General Election was that the proceeding two years convinced me both parties relentlessly pursued an identical agenda.
Well spotted Organ Morgan. I don't know why it's annoying, but that's beside the point.
I expect that if you were to compare our respective posts you'd find lots of stuff like that. It did occur to me to do just that, but there's a limit to how much I care.
The whole thing is tiresome , but it does at least serve to expose the limited ability of some like Jon1959 and Rudey to form reliable opinions and judgements, and so in that sense it is helpful.
I haven't looked at the by election result , although I expect that it's out by now , but I should think that a general election is pretty much inevitable one way or another, and I think the signs are obvious that BoJo is preparing for one because he's promising all sorts of things which he knows he probably won't have to do in this Parliament.
An early GE looks increasingly likely now as this might easily become a minority government soon if certain Tories carry out their promises to defect (Philip Lee being the latest to rouse speculation)
Coupled with Labour's poor polling results and a perceived "Boris Bounce", however slight, the Tories might conclude now is their best chance of gaining some miniscule majority. Nevertheless, if Labour suddenly changes tack and gets real with itself by abandoning it's fence sitting, the Tories could well regret ever calling a GE in the first place.
If the euro elections weren't a wake up call for labour, I don't know what is. They've got such an opportunity here, ripe for the taking.
The remain parties are working together so as not to split the vote. Labour should be all over it.
Lots in Labour don’t want to win an election.
They want to go along to meetings and sing ‘oh Jeremy Corbyn’ like the followers of the Thugee cult in The Temple Of Doom.
Nail on the head .
Divide ,think you have conquered, fall no matter what , as long as the cause is kept up.
Depending upon who wins any election , it remains to be seen whether the result will be accepted.
We're in territory where the minority now start demanding a re run if they lose a vote, so unless the elite and their followers win ,
( which seems unlikely ), we'll have years of ranting about how people didn't know what they were voting for .
Remain party wins in leave seat. Unless the Tories can fix the brexit party problem they basically can't call a GE
Won't be any alternative if they lose a no confidence motion or their majority.
If they can strike a deal with Nigel Farage and stand on a Brexit with no deal if necessary ticket, they'll increase their majority, but as I said there, we're now in the very dangerous territory where the outcome of a vote isn't necessarily accepted , so it's not certain whether that'd resolve anything.
That's an interesting take on something that's literally only happened once in an entire generation. You do realise that there's been a general election since the results of the Brexit vote and there weren't any demands for a re-run or years of ranting about how people didn't know what they were voting for... Right?
It's almost like you're worried that people may be right to question the result of the referendum.
You make an excellent point, although my post was more rhetorical than anything else. I think that the success or otherwise of refusing to accept the democratic outcome on Brexit will determine whether it becomes a standard tactic. Same sort of experiment is going on with President Trump in the USA.
The traditional tactic of calling everyone racist when the left lose an argument is wearing thin, particularly since they've been revealed as the most racist party in terms of anti semitism.
It's hard or impossible for them to win elections now because too many people are onto them, and they're not inclined to accept this as the test, so if they're able to gain anything from this desperate guerilla warfare through the media and sympathetic establishment components, they'll probably continue to do it and expand it .
In my opinion, I'd have to say that your post was more hyperbolic than anything else.
"Experiment"? Why would you call it that?
Trump may or may not have been elected democratically - for arguments sake, I think he was - but he's doing his best to try to be as un-Presidential as possible and is rightfully being challenged on his harmful domestic and foreign policies, his alleged criminal activities (before and after being sworn into office), his literal thousands of proven lies and his outright bigoted & racist behaviours* - all of which should exclude a person from having executive powers.
I'm not sure why racism is relevant to what we were saying, but more importantly... Have you just invented the 'Left Party'? If you're referring to the Labour party, say 'the Labour party'. I'm definitely on the left side of politics, but I'm not a staunch Labour supporter. In fact, it appears that unlike those who support right-wing ideologies/parties, I don't see the left as being an all-perfect viewpoint or political stance - I just think that it's much better than the opposite side... and as such, I don't agree with everything that Labour stands for.
In fact, if a left/liberal/labour/democratic politician does something wrong - the left, in general don't appear to be as blindly defensive of them - unlike those on the right. As such, the stories about anti-semitism within the Labour party are indeed troubling and there should be consequences, if proven.
Now we've discussed the left - how about the right? The Tory party with their general anti-muslim, anti-black, anti-lgbt, anti-disabled, anti-working class outlook (and the numerous policies that have evolved from them). It's a sad indictment of our country when the Tories are basically the soft-right party in the UK because of UKIP, the BNP, Britain First and all of the other splinter groups from them. It's strange that you don't see many marches from the left protesting against minority groups do you? Or posting racial slurs and threats against minorities online? There must be a reason for that, surely?
It's unsettling that you think that 'the left' call everyone racist when they're losing an argument - instead of just accepting that the majority of the time (not always, obviously... there are definitely times when people can be overly-sensitive or just born an entitled prick and have to be outraged about something - I accept that there are those types on 'both sides') it's just simply pointing out that someone is being a racist * (see: previous mention of the racist, Donald Trump - who is a racist. One more for luck, Donald Trump is a racist).
Is this the fabled Left Party or Labour? I'll be completely honest, nothing of what you've said beyond the word 'now' in the first sentence is making a lot of sense to me. If you could explain it to me in another way, that would be helpful.
You're obviously not a fan of Labour and their links to anti-semitism - but how do you feel about right-wing politics? Don't forget that Jo Cox MP was murdered not so long ago by a far-right extremist because of her views on Europe, and, also be aware of the fact that the biggest domestic terrorist threat in racist Donald Trump's America is also from far-right extremists ("very fine people on both sides" though). This weekend's events haven't shone a positive light on right-wing America either.
If it's boils down to the politics of the left vs the politics of the right, I choose the one which doesn't preach about hate and murder. How about you?
I'm not a fan of anything remotely linked to socialism, which I believe to be an evil and empty philosophy which has caused nothing but death , suffering and dissapointed believers.
You're by no means the first person to make the understandable mistake that this means I support or condone the other lot.
In fact, as George Galloway puts it, they're two cheeks of the same arse, and they both lie constantly and routinely. They like each other much more than they like their own supporters because they are pigs together in the same trough.
I've met them and dealt with them and I can assure you that they're ALL laughing at those who listen to the divisive tribal crap they cling to.
You're right that I don't like anti semitism or any other kind of real mistreatment of people because of their race, but I do think that some of the nonsense people come up with and call it that is plain bloody silly. I've got complex theories on the subject of 'isms' in fact, and I'll share them with you some time. Not right now because I'm absolutely knackered from painting fence panels and I'm shortly going to eat some home grown baked potatoes and listen to infowars. ( I'm not really going to listen to infowars - just pulling your leg).
Your whole post is intelligent and well put together though , and deserves a better reply than this, but I thought I'd better do a holding reply because I appreciate your well thought out points , whether I happen to agree with all of them, and I certainly didn't want to just ignore them till tomorrow !
Your posting is a cut above the generally disappointing garbage here, and I thank you for restoring my faith ,( or lingering hope anyway) , that anyone under about 50 can still think for themselves, and I'll add to this tomorrow , God willing.
Note my reply at top of this page. I did it without quoting and it jumped over the page instead of underneath yours.
There's an ocean of difference between a one off, so called generational, referendum on perhaps the biggest issue since the Second World War which, outrageously, was conducted without the sensible requirement of imposing a supermajority verdict, and a routine GE whose result can be overturned every five years or maybe sooner. That's dynamic and contemporary democracy.
Joining the Common Market was the biggest issue since the second world war, and they never told us where it was all you going to end up, so we were deceived about the true intentions of the EU.
I have said this several times in different threads and very few people seem to have grasped the point you and I have made i.e. Cameron et al should have set a minimum majority verdict of 66.6%. If this was not achieved then the status quo would be preserved.
If you add the Tory leave vote to the Brexit one , you get a leave win .
50% +1 was required to get Britain into the EU but a two-thirds majority should have been the requirement to get out? Is there no end to the twisted reasoning of those who have sulked about the Brexit vote for over three years?
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