Vassell eases pressure on Warnock with late, late winner.

[the other bob wilson]

Pack shines as Cardiff bludgeon their way to victory.

http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

[dembethewarrior]

Thanks Bob

[Nobody's Rep]

Not sure the temperature of the fan base can be taken from the social media platforms as you have done here - I know walesonline do but it isn't relevant - just a few noisy boys mostly who would criticise most things about city

Also you omitted that Reid said that he wanted to join Fulham for a long time.

I thought, from where I was, that the Morrison header was tipped onto the bar?

[the other bob wilson]

Not sure the temperature of the fan base can be taken from the social media platforms as you have done here - I know walesonline do but it isn't relevant - just a few noisy boys mostly who would criticise most things about city

Also you omitted that Reid said that he wanted to join Fulham for a long time.

I thought, from where I was, that the Morrison header was tipped onto the bar?

You wait until we don't score a late winner in a home match against a side people are expecting us to beat, let's see if the reaction is as supportive of Neil Warnock then. I'm happy because we won, but I don't like the way we're going to be playing this season and never will - unless we're challenging for promotion, I'll be saying so pretty frequently on my blog over the coming months. Before I get called a fickle fan, I'll admit to the charge, but I think I've earned the right to be fickle after nearly fifty six years of watching us play.

What is obvious is that, with his reaction in his press conference on Friday and what he, apparently, said in his programme notes yesterday, Neil Warnock clearly felt there was a need for him to address the criticism whoever it had come from.

I said Decordova-Reid had indicated his preference to play for Fulham rather than us, so I don't see much difference from what you say.

[dembethewarrior]

Not sure the temperature of the fan base can be taken from the social media platforms as you have done here - I know walesonline do but it isn't relevant - just a few noisy boys mostly who would criticise most things about city

Also you omitted that Reid said that he wanted to join Fulham for a long time.

I thought, from where I was, that the Morrison header was tipped onto the bar?

In all fairness I saw it at work, with friends and messages we were sharing etc it seemed like everyone I knew (and not just the internet) was pissed off reid was going.

Even the glory supporting mates who we banter with were baffled at the decision (again non social media)

[Nobody's Rep]

Not sure I called you fickle and people have their right to an opinion just not sure you or walesonline should conclude consensus from a fairly narrow myopic slice of intelligence from social media.

For me this is my 41st year and have never left a game early and have never felt the need to boo or criticise my own team when at the game and certainly not write a blog on it afterwards. But hey ho each to their own.

[dembethewarrior]

Reid wanted to go, his agent engineered the move.

You then look at why he would want to go, oh yeah he wasn’t played.

Warnock says he wanted to build his team around him, did bobby know this!? Was it communicated to him at the end of the season once relegation was looming?

Neil Warnock seems an honest guy to me but that line seems like a fan pleaser, I don’t buy it.

Also, back to bobby, if it was the style of play.. why come to Cardiff? He came to get games in the PL and we were his only option to do so.


Bob, sorry to turn the thread on it’s head this has all been done to death, welcome to have this deleted if you don’t want this subject setting the tone of discussion

[SydneyBlue]

great read as usual especially for those of us who can’t get to many games

[the other bob wilson]

Not sure I called you fickle and people have their right to an opinion just not sure you or walesonline should conclude consensus from a fairly narrow myopic slice of intelligence from social media.

For me this is my 41st year and have never left a game early and have never felt the need to boo or criticise my own team when at the game and certainly not write a blog on it afterwards. But hey ho each to their own.

I said I was fickle because I'm sure that's what some who read what I said would feel about me.

I did not and do not conclude consensus in the reaction on Thursday, there was never going to be that given what I said about the goodwill towards our manager after our promotion, but I was surprised by the degree of criticism. As I said before, our manager clearly felt it was something that he had to address on at least a couple of occasions within the following forty eight hours.

If you think I only write my blog to criticise my team, then I suggest you read a bit more of it - I like to think I am very supportive of the team, and the manager, when I feel they deserve it, but I will confess that so much attritional, set piece orientated, long ball football in recent seasons is grinding me down somewhat.

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

The points have been made elsewhere but I think it would have been worth highlighting the almost entirely absent threat from Luton, despite thir possession stats, and the pretty poor time-wasting in ET, which rebounded on them in epic style.
But a good summary Bob as always.

[the other bob wilson]

Reid wanted to go, his agent engineered the move.

You then look at why he would want to go, oh yeah he wasn’t played.

Warnock says he wanted to build his team around him, did bobby know this!? Was it communicated to him at the end of the season once relegation was looming?

Neil Warnock seems an honest guy to me but that line seems like a fan pleaser, I don’t buy it.

Also, back to bobby, if it was the style of play.. why come to Cardiff? He came to get games in the PL and we were his only option to do so.


Bob, sorry to turn the thread on it’s head this has all been done to death, welcome to have this deleted if you don’t want this subject setting the tone of discussion

No, I'm fine with it. We'll never know exactly what went on, but, as I said in my piece, I suspect the truth is probably somewhere in between the extremes offered by manager and player - I find the notion that the team was going to be built around Decordova-Reid hard to believe, but, equally, you ask valid questions about Decordova-Reid's motivation for joining us and I'd say your opening sentence is spot on.

[the other bob wilson]

The points have been made elsewhere but I think it would have been worth highlighting the almost entirely absent threat from Luton, despite thir possession stats, and the pretty poor time-wasting in ET, which rebounded on them in epic style.
But a good summary Bob as always.

Fair points, reading back what I wrote, I didn't make it clear that I couldn't see where those who were saying Luton were unlucky were coming from. Yes, there has to be some bad luck involved when you lose to a goal in the ninety sixth minute, but the result was right - we may have bludgeoned our way to the win, but it was still a deserved one.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Pack shines as Cardiff bludgeon their way to victory.

http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

'bludgeon' ? Come on, I know I've detected an increasing frustration with Warnockball - as a lot of us have- but it would take maybe 3 seasons to change the squad sufficiently, to get a closer version of the beautiful game. I do agree that it's probably a price worth paying if we become serious challengers for promotion again, but I have my doubts. This side may get 'better' as players bed in, but even for a Warnock side I just don't think there's enough quality. When we went up our central midfield comprised two/three of the following : Gunnarson, Damour, Bryson, Gruijic, Ralls, Patterson. That's far better than we have now. There was always an element of creativity in the centre which we don't have in this squad [unless you incl. Tomlin], and I reckon we will struggle against teams far better than Luton and Wigan..

[Vindec]

'bludgeon' ? Come on, I know I've detected an increasing frustration with Warnockball - as a lot of us have- but it would take maybe 3 seasons to change the squad sufficiently, to get a closer version of the beautiful game. I do agree that it's probably a price worth paying if we become serious challengers for promotion again, but I have my doubts. This side may get 'better' as players bed in, but even for a Warnock side I just don't think there's enough quality. When we went up our central midfield comprised two/three of the following : Gunnarson, Damour, Bryson, Gruijic, Ralls, Patterson. That's far better than we have now. There was always an element of creativity in the centre which we don't have in this squad [unless you incl. Tomlin], and I reckon we will struggle against teams far better than Luton and Wigan..

I must be missing something here about our midfield in the promotion season being far better than now. Gunnarson was injured for much of the promotion season and when he returned was poor; he certainly had a lot of criticism on here. Damour had a couple of good games but was hardly a regular and the same could be said of Grujic, and Ralls and Patterson are still here. So the point where the midfield was "far better" has completely escaped me. I don't agree with the creativity comparison either as the promotion and current midfields are broadly similar with like for like replacements.

[Baloo]

I must be missing something here about our midfield in the promotion season being far better than now. Gunnarson was injured for much of the promotion season and when he returned was poor; he certainly had a lot of criticism on here. Damour had a couple of good games but was hardly a regular and the same could be said of Grujic, and Ralls and Patterson are still here. So the point where the midfield was "far better" has completely escaped me. I don't agree with the creativity comparison either as the promotion and current midfields are broadly similar with like for like replacements.

Me too. It’s also very early days for the new boys. I’m quite encouraged by the addition of Pack and Vaulks at this early stage.

[surge]

Scott Johnson tweeted the following:

I seem to have watched a different game to everyone else today. I watched the one where the side that were in the Premier League until recently toiled to beat a side who just came up from League One. There were positives and a win’s a win, but it was pretty awful stuff really

I think some people overreacted to such an extent on Thursday that maybe they’re overcompensating a bit today. Two years ago, Cardiff were walloping Villa. That’s the level they need to aspire to and that looks a long way off. We all know what a promotion contender looks like.

Two years ago we're playing Villa off the park with a strong defence, controlling the space in the middle and then pace and power up front and now we're seemingly trying to emulate a Tony Pulis' Middlesbrough side that failed to get promotion despite millions being spent on it. I appreciate that Villa at home, or perhaps Wolves away, was the peak performance two years ago but at least try and play like that then dig out results when weather is bad or injuries pick up, don't start the season playing like the Championship is just one long slog.

Another complaint with greater reflection: you'll read in the debutants thread that Whyte had "teething problems" or that he has "lots to learn at this level" but he's in front of Peltier and next to Pack/Ralls and none seem to be trying to make him look good. It seems very much sink or swim and given that Warnock made so much of their being "leaders" in the side that's not good enough.

Hopefully the flaws in yesterday's performance were because so many new players were being played together. The Championship is a long, long season and plenty of time for things to start clicking.

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

Fair points, reading back what I wrote, I didn't make it clear that I couldn't see where those who were saying Luton were unlucky were coming from. Yes, there has to be some bad luck involved when you lose to a goal in the ninety sixth minute, but the result was right - we may have bludgeoned our way to the win, but it was still a deserved one.

It was deserved. It wasn't a vintage performance and I agree with those who say we'd feel differently if we hadn't got that winner. But we did. You could argue equally that we'd feel even happier than we are if 2 or 3 of our early chances had gone in.

[Father Dougal]

'bludgeon' ? Come on, I know I've detected an increasing frustration with Warnockball - as a lot of us have- but it would take maybe 3 seasons to change the squad sufficiently, to get a closer version of the beautiful game. I do agree that it's probably a price worth paying if we become serious challengers for promotion again, but I have my doubts. This side may get 'better' as players bed in, but even for a Warnock side I just don't think there's enough quality. When we went up our central midfield comprised two/three of the following : Gunnarson, Damour, Bryson, Gruijic, Ralls, Patterson. That's far better than we have now. There was always an element of creativity in the centre which we don't have in this squad [unless you incl. Tomlin], and I reckon we will struggle against teams far better than Luton and Wigan..

Midfield was far better???

I can not see how you have come to that conclusion. Even if pack only plays as well as he has for Bristol he is an improvement to it. I think vaulks is at least par also.

So we are missing gunnarson damour Bryson and a few games from grujic. Where was all that creativity? I genuinely have no idea how you have come to that conclusion?

[Father Dougal]

Plus we have scored 4 in 2 games. And as you say could and probably should have been 3 or 4 up after 20 minutes yesterday due to what we created. Genuinely confused how you think any of of gunnarson damour or Bryson would have made us far more creative yesterday?

[surge]

Plus we have scored 4 in 2 games. And as you say could and probably should have been 3 or 4 up after 20 minutes yesterday due to what we created. Genuinely confused how you think any of of gunnarson damour or Bryson would have made us far more creative yesterday?

The post you have quoted states the following: "There was always an element of creativity in the centre which we don't have in this squad."

Another Scott Johnson tweet probably clears up why you're disagreeing: "The squad is a lot less sexy too, and it wasn’t that sexy to begin with." We were never that creative but an element of creativity has been lost. We might have more goal-scoring chances but not ones we have created other than having a team all over 6 foot tall. More of an issue being that the midfield two years ago never gave the opposition as much space and time as Luton had yesterday.

[dembethewarrior]

Me too. It’s also very early days for the new boys. I’m quite encouraged by the addition of Pack and Vaulks at this early stage.

agree with vindec here as well

Also Pack looks like he can pick a pass and organise around him, and the little I’ve seen of Vaulks he can also ping an accurate pass

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Midfield was far better???

I can not see how you have come to that conclusion. Even if pack only plays as well as he has for Bristol he is an improvement to it. I think vaulks is at least par also.

So we are missing gunnarson damour Bryson and a few games from grujic. Where was all that creativity? I genuinely have no idea how you have come to that conclusion?

The centre midfield was constantly changing when we went - for a variety of reasons - but there was always one player at least who could find a decent pass .

[dembethewarrior]

Scott Johnson tweeted the following:



Two years ago we're playing Villa off the park with a strong defence, controlling the space in the middle and then pace and power up front and now we're seemingly trying to emulate a Tony Pulis' Middlesbrough side that failed to get promotion despite millions being spent on it. I appreciate that Villa at home, or perhaps Wolves away, was the peak performance two years ago but at least try and play like that then dig out results when weather is bad or injuries pick up, don't start the season playing like the Championship is just one long slog.

Another complaint with greater reflection: you'll read in the debutants thread that Whyte had "teething problems" or that he has "lots to learn at this level" but he's in front of Peltier and next to Pack/Ralls and none seem to be trying to make him look good. It seems very much sink or swim and given that Warnock made so much of their being "leaders" in the side that's not good enough.

Hopefully the flaws in yesterday's performance were because so many new players were being played together. The Championship is a long, long season and plenty of time for things to start clicking.

Sounded to me like Pack was making the effort yesterday to get him in the right positions on the pitch so that scomment is bollocks.

[Don Corleone]

Plus we have scored 4 in 2 games. And as you say could and probably should have been 3 or 4 up after 20 minutes yesterday due to what we created. Genuinely confused how you think any of of gunnarson damour or Bryson would have made us far more creative yesterday?

Good point - 4 goals scored in 2 games and 4 goals conceded. Going by those stats we are the league,s entertainers

[Father Dougal]

The centre midfield was constantly changing when we went - for a variety of reasons - but there was always one player at least who could find a decent pass .

Who? It wasn’t gunnarson that’s for sure. Damour? Bryson?

As tobw said pack can certainly pass the ball. I simply can’t understand people saying this squad is less creative and less sexy than when we went up. Ralls can also play.

Who have we lost that people are gutted about and we have lost so much creativity?