Can you imagine how cardiff fans would react if we passed the ball around at the back like Luton did yesterday?

[welshwarrior]

It has to be one thing or the other because you need to be decisive once you decide upon a tactic and not deviate from it - otherwise you can't expect it to work. I will say though that we might learn to hold the ball when we're in the lead with minutes to go and that's a good suggestion, although it's a dangerous tactic and should only be used sparingly

I remember going to city matches with my friend, Steven Spear way back when Jimmy Scholar was manager,Great teams then and great football,Tosh, Clarkie GIBSON, Anderson,football was fun then.

[NYCBlue]

It has to be one thing or the other because you need to be decisive once you decide upon a tactic and not deviate from it - otherwise you can't expect it to work. I will say though that we might learn to hold the ball when we're in the lead with minutes to go and that's a good suggestion, although it's a dangerous tactic and should only be used sparingly

Nonsense. If a tactic isn't working, the manager and team must adapt. That's what game management is. Good managers react and change formations and tactics based on what they see happening in front of them. You think Klopp and Guardiola send their teams out with just one plan?

[Father Dougal]

What I will say is in the championship you can be very successful with any style. But you absolutely must be good at what you are good at- the very best in your area. You can’t get anywhere being a bits and pieces team.

This is what Warnock understands most.

It’s also why for me the championship is ten times more interesting than the premier league as you get a whole range of styles and approaches- none of them perfect but all can work if executed well.

Personally for that reason I genuinely thought the premier league was quite boring. Every team we played seemed to be strong, tall, quick, skilful, well organised- and didn’t have any weak links.

In the championship all teams and players have some strengths but they also have weaknesses so its always game on. A real contrast of tactics available. Much more interesting.

[Father Dougal]

Most people would be happy with watching us play like we did against Wolves, Leeds or Villa last time we were here wouldn’t they?

The challenge is attaining that level consistently. I’m not sure whether we abandoned the approach last time around or just started to run out of steam once we started picking up injuries and knocks along the way.

They would.

Unfortunately teams watch each other in this league and all those wins happened in the first 10 games or so. Teams worked out how to stop us then. We didn’t have a choice but to adapt.

[Baloo]

They would.

Unfortunately teams watch each other in this league and all those wins happened in the first 10 games or so. Teams worked out how to stop us then. We didn’t have a choice but to adapt.

What do you think they did out of interest?

[dembethewarrior]

I think there is merit to play how we do just at times it feels like we give the ball away too easily and can’t hold onto the ball to save our lives. It always feels like an equaliser is coming.

He plays to our strengths, but sometimes it only takes a second to look up, if you’re gonna hoof it hoof it near someone so we can at least make a challenge and attempt to keep the ball.

One thing that’s always grated on me
Is aimless punts upfield. Other teams do, liverpool and Man City for example resort to it, but it’s always calculated. I honestly believe we just don’t look and welly the ball at times.

[Father Dougal]

What do you think they did out of interest?

Kicked shit into zohore early doors

[Father Dougal]

Kicked shit into zohore early doors

Off top of my head defended deeper against us for a start and stretched the pitc as realised we were hopeless being given time on the ball.

Also more focus on stopping the ball going wide early.

Also the early wins relied heavily on zohore getting in behind and running the channels. Once he stopped doing that and stopped being effective the whole thing had to change. We needed him and we looked best when he played well.

A bit like bothroyd under Dave jones- but when we didn’t have bothroyd Jones teams tried to play the same way and it just didn’t happen. Warnock is quite set in his ways yes- but he’s also clever enough to adapt. Which is how we still went up.

[Baloo]

Off top of my head defended deeper against us for a start and stretched the pitc as realised we were hopeless being given time on the ball.

Also more focus on stopping the ball going wide early.

Also the early wins relied heavily on zohore getting in behind and running the channels. Once he stopped doing that and stopped being effective the whole thing had to change. We needed him and we looked best when he played well.

A bit like bothroyd under Dave jones- but when we didn’t have bothroyd Jones teams tried to play the same way and it just didn’t happen. Warnock is quite set in his ways yes- but he’s also clever enough to adapt. Which is how we still went up.

I asked because it’s also been suggested we actually abandoned the style somewhat for a more conservative approach so interesting to read different viewpoints. I also felt we ran out of steam a bit as the season progressed and found the tempo difficult to maintain. Perhaps as always it’s a bit of a combination of factors.

[MacAdder]

Not a great spectacle yesterday but I think some of that can be put down to players bedding in and the way Luton set up to play.

As for trying to pass through teams, retain possession and thus make it a better spectacle as many are advocating, the players required to do this cost money. They also have big egos.
As it seems for all the world that VT isn't throwing money about, we do the next best thing, get a man in who can compete and get the best from a bunch of "limited" players.

[Wolfmother]

What do you want to do then ?
- start trying to play a continental style passing game and taking on Liverpool and Manchester City at their own game ?

Cardiff City have has a good measure of success by doing something different to most other teams. When it works, which is quite a lot of the time, it exploits the weaknesses in current footballing strategies and gets us much further than we've got any right to expect with our resources.
That's worth doing and gets results, and it's called Warnockball.

From my point of view it's far more creditable than just buying success as the big clubs do, and in the real world 90% of clubs including ourselves can't do that anyway.

There are many many clubs trying to play "quality" football and yielding nothing but frustrated mediocrity from their efforts.

Case in point: Bristol City.

Warnockball got us promoted with one of the lowest budgets in the Championship and very nearly kept us in the premiership.
There's a very good chance that Warnockball will get us there again this year.

Those who constantly moan about it, ( and I don't single you out because there are plenty here), are not being logical or wise.

I sometimes get a bit irritated in the other threads here with youngsters who don't acknowledge that experience of the real world counts much and think they're the first people to come up with theories which don't actually work.

Perhaps that makes me a bit rude and dismissive of them, which is probably wrong of me, but the fact is that I've been around the block a few times and in the process I hope I've learned the difference between a seductive argument and a workable policy. On this basis , I suggest that the manager we've got knows exactly what he's doing - what sounds like a nice idea and what will actually work to get the best possible outcome in an imperfect world.

He knops exactly what he is doing, and he dosent know how to do anything else. And he does it for himself, not the club. If he did, his signings would be of a different caliber and age. And you could see a team capable of a transition in the future. You can’t do that now, it’s even more “Warwick ball” than it’s ever been. And please stop with the budget, paying millions bullshit. There are a million different types of players out there. In all shapes and colors. He does this for himself.

[dicey1966]

Why does it have to be one thing or the other? You can still retain possession without playing tippy-tappy at the back. We had the lead yesterday and the opportunity to control the game. But we failed to do, by continuing with hopeful long balls, lobs, flicks, headers etc. We need to be able to adapt our game.

Two words ...Fear and Ability. Those that have the ability often struggle to with Warnock way which includes chasing lost causes.

[surge]

Not allowing the opposition to set up to defend one tactic would be nice.

However, it is interesting to see which sides are passing the ball the most this season and specifically that we're only 10 successful passes behind Fulham: https://twitter.com/Champstat/status...67242464055296

Most successful passes this season

West Brom - 908
Leeds - 897
Brentford - 886
Swansea - 740
Derby - 709

Fewest successful passes

Millwall - 260
Hull - 269
Cardiff - 308
Fulham - 318
Blackburn - 355

[dembethewarrior]

He knops exactly what he is doing, and he dosent know how to do anything else. And he does it for himself, not the club. If he did, his signings would be of a different caliber and age. And you could see a team capable of a transition in the future. You can’t do that now, it’s even more “Warwick ball” than it’s ever been. And please stop with the budget, paying millions bullshit. There are a million different types of players out there. In all shapes and colors. He does this for himself.

Mate you’d marry Jordan and complain she was giving your mates blowies in the pub bogs.

You know what you’re getting with Warnock.

[Wolfmother]

Mate you’d marry Jordan and complain she was giving your mates blowies in the pub bogs.

You know what you’re getting with Warnock.

You know exactly what you get with Warwick. And it’s not suitable for the club potential. It might be for a team like Luton. But not Cardiff. How many was at the game yesterday? And just like that, I keep a higher standard than Jordan..

Ask yourself, what is he trying to achieve? What would be the point of going up? We have no players capable of stepping up. Didn’t sign anyone for the future. And we all know what would happen if we did. Still sign players on a shoestring budget.
Lots of clubs do that. But they are slowly building something, or at least trying to. For me, get Warwick on the bus. And take Dalman and that little fella with him..

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Blimey, they're slow, but no that slow..

..haha..that's not even a typo

[MacAdder]

What do you want to do then ?
- start trying to play a continental style passing game and taking on Liverpool and Manchester City at their own game ?

Cardiff City have has a good measure of success by doing something different to most other teams. When it works, which is quite a lot of the time, it exploits the weaknesses in current footballing strategies and gets us much further than we've got any right to expect with our resources.
That's worth doing and gets results, and it's called Warnockball.

From my point of view it's far more creditable than just buying success as the big clubs do, and in the real world 90% of clubs including ourselves can't do that anyway.

There are many many clubs trying to play "quality" football and yielding nothing but frustrated mediocrity from their efforts.

Case in point: Bristol City.

Warnockball got us promoted with one of the lowest budgets in the Championship and very nearly kept us in the premiership.
There's a very good chance that Warnockball will get us there again this year.

Those who constantly moan about it, ( and I don't single you out because there are plenty here), are not being logical or wise.

I sometimes get a bit irritated in the other threads here with youngsters who don't acknowledge that experience of the real world counts much and think they're the first people to come up with theories which don't actually work.

Perhaps that makes me a bit rude and dismissive of them, which is probably wrong of me, but the fact is that I've been around the block a few times and in the process I hope I've learned the difference between a seductive argument and a workable policy. On this basis , I suggest that the manager we've got knows exactly what he's doing - what sounds like a nice idea and what will actually work to get the best possible outcome in an imperfect world.

Good post.

[rudy gestede]

Jesus, nobody wants us to be Man City or Liverpool or even Bristol City, although the club are having a good go at it! All thar people are asking for is that we try and keep the ball a little longer and don't invite pressure, and maybe for the fullbacks to support the wide players now and again. I'm glad that you also live in the 'real world' whatever that is.

Agree with all this, we give the ball away far too easily and that puts us under massive pressure.

The possession stat is counted passes rather than time on the ball so I think it’s a little skewed because of how we play.

But there’s no hiding the fact that we are terrible at keeping the ball and passing the ball.

I wouldn’t want to see us constantly passing it around the back but when we are 1-0 up I’d rather us do that than keep giving it away.

[splott parker]

I remember going to city matches with my friend, Steven Spear way back when Jimmy Scholar was manager,Great teams then and great football,Tosh, Clarkie GIBSON, Anderson,football was fun then.

Obviously our most intelligent manager🤪

[Lawnmower]

Do we know if they play like that all of the time? Luton didn't want to get into a long ball game with us for obvious reasons, there keeper when forced to kick was knocking the ball out to the wide areas. I can sort of understand why they were trying to play out, especially as we only play with one striker and are very strong in the air.

Their fans seem to think they do.
And their manager is a proponent of it. Check his history.
😉

Ironic thing was when they got into our half they often then hit high balls which we gobbled up

[thehumblegringo]

Some good posts in this thread and it's great to see the level of debate has taken a step upward curve lately.

Though I may not be as harsh as wolf mother (sometimes) I'm generally in his camp in how we view the game.

I do feel Warnock had a responsibility to keep one eye on the next incoming manager and to assist the club in that transition. The board also had the same responsibility.

I believe there's a reason Flint was signed by Pulis and then Warnock. I'm not disputing that Flint is not good at what he does but a more mobile, younger replacement like Nelson would have been a better long term replacement.

I don't think we'll have a choice whether we want to evolve into the modern game. Players like Peltier etc are dying species and even if we had an academy like Ajax they could never be used in the way our manager would want them to be used.

Kids are taught differently today and are 10 times more technical than they were when I was a kid.

It affects us when we are trying to develop our own, it affects us in the loan market and affects us when attracting players.

[Father Dougal]

Some good posts in this thread and it's great to see the level of debate has taken a step upward curve lately.

Though I may not be as harsh as wolf mother (sometimes) I'm generally in his camp in how we view the game.

I do feel Warnock had a responsibility to keep one eye on the next incoming manager and to assist the club in that transition. The board also had the same responsibility.

I believe there's a reason Flint was signed by Pulis and then Warnock. I'm not disputing that Flint is not good at what he does but a more mobile, younger replacement like Nelson would have been a better long term replacement.

I don't think we'll have a choice whether we want to evolve into the modern game. Players like Peltier etc are dying species and even if we had an academy like Ajax they could never be used in the way our manager would want them to be used.

Kids are taught differently today and are 10 times more technical than they were when I was a kid.

It affects us when we are trying to develop our own, it affects us in the loan market and affects us when attracting players.

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

[Baloo]

Warnock did sign nelson aswell to be fair. Are you saying he should play him above flint (aged 30 so a good few years left in that position in this league) even if he thinks it would make the team worse?

The Wurzels used to stick Flint up front when searching for a late goal. Could make a useful contribution at the other end of the pitch this season.

[Lawnmower]

the top completed passers in the opposition half yesterday were

Ralls 16/24
Pack 13/20
Tunnicliffe 13/23

We pass the ball in the areas where it hurts teams , not around our own box.

[Lawnmower]

You know exactly what you get with Warwick. And it’s not suitable for the club potential. It might be for a team like Luton. But not Cardiff. How many was at the game yesterday? And just like that, I keep a higher standard than Jordan..

Ask yourself, what is he trying to achieve? What would be the point of going up? We have no players capable of stepping up. Didn’t sign anyone for the future. And we all know what would happen if we did. Still sign players on a shoestring budget.
Lots of clubs do that. But they are slowly building something, or at least trying to. For me, get Warwick on the bus. And take Dalman and that little fella with him..

I’m not sure how much you realise how important it was that Warnock got us up 2 years ago, just before our parachute payments ran out- and we’ve now got 2 years to do the same before they run out again.