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Thread: And this is why we need a Director of Football

  1. #26

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    UK football managers and pundits in in the 90's and early 2000's wouldn't have dreamt of any formation but 4-4-2 but that changed and even now a lot of pundits will be incredibly wary of suggesting 4-4-2, but surely always using and refusing to use it are just different sides of the same naïve coin? Aren't we now doing the same thing with a Director of Football? I would suggest that the best thing the Jacks have done this summer is set themselves up off the field but as far as I'm aware they do not have a DoF, they just have a forward thinking and balanced (not totally market driven, not totally football driven) set of club officials. We have a wily old fox who covers for lack of football knowledge in our list of club officials but perhaps leaves us restricted in other areas. We have a year of, hopefully, relative security and stability to take a step forward off the pitch to leave us better on it.
    Swansea are in a different position to us. They have football people who still have a great amount of affinity and influence at the club.

    People like Alan Curtis and Leon Britton are stalwarts who know the brand of football they want and genuinely have the clubs interests at heart.

    Even they have seen the need for a new head of recruitment to push them on to another level.

    We have nobody. I'm not sure what wily old fox means?

    Has Warnock ever left a legacy at a club. Has he shown any long term approach to signing players or building a future.

  2. #27

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    Swansea are in a different position to us. They have football people who still have a great amount of affinity and influence at the club.

    People like Alan Curtis and Leon Britton are stalwarts who know the brand of football they want and genuinely have the clubs interests at heart.

    Even they have seen the need for a new head of recruitment to push them on to another level.

    We have nobody. I'm not sure what wily old fox means?

    Has Warnock ever left a legacy at a club. Has he shown any long term approach to signing players or building a future.
    My point being that it's easy to call for a DoF because it works at other clubs but Swansea have, at least initially, found a system that works for them without a DoF. Our first question should be whether it's right for us, arguably you have answered that by explaining why we're very different to Swansea, and second question should be who is the right fit if the role is one we want to create. If we simply move Neil Warnock into the role then I can't see his qualities matching what we now expect and it will be harder to see it creating the outcomes we all want.

  3. #28

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    We are a reasonbly big club by championship standards. Well supported, with decent facilities in a great city easily accessed from London the SE and the midlands. If we had a a decent footballing philosiphy we should have no trouble attracting quality loan signings.

    Steve Cooper's been in the Swanea Job two months and they're already further ahead than us. How is it that a club like Swansea have been ahead of us in terms of management, playing style and league position for the best part of 10 ****ing years? And a club like Hudderfield can attract talent like Chalobah? Don't Tan, Choo and Dalman see where we are going wrong?
    To put it simply. No.

  4. #29

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    My point being that it's easy to call for a DoF because it works at other clubs but Swansea have, at least initially, found a system that works for them without a DoF. Our first question should be whether it's right for us, arguably you have answered that by explaining why we're very different to Swansea, and second question should be who is the right fit if the role is one we want to create. If we simply move Neil Warnock into the role then I can't see his qualities matching what we now expect and it will be harder to see it creating the outcomes we all want.
    I definitely wouldn't move Warnock into that position and I don't think we will.

    One I think you may be saying that I definitely do agree with is who is gonna be the person or people that brings in a suitable DOF if we go down that route?

    There is a huge vacuum at our club as a whole and I don't know if there's any qualified to make such a decision

  5. #30

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    The trouble with Tan is he got his fingers burned with Malky & Ole, so he now hires his managers on perceived trustworthiness, and not on their organisation and strategy sklls. His underlings don't help much as they lack any football experience. Whatever happens, at some point we will have to start again from scratch, the question is when, and who will be in charge at the top?

  6. #31

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Wales-Bales View Post
    The trouble with Tan is he got his fingers burned with Malky & Ole, so he now hires his managers on perceived trustworthiness, and not on their organisation and strategy sklls. His underlings don't help much as they lack any football experience. Whatever happens, at some point we will have to start again from scratch, the question is when, and who will be in charge at the top?
    I agree and the longer we leave it the more difficult it will become.

  7. #32

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    I agree that we shouldn't just put a DoF in place and assume that everything is now set up for the next 10-15 years.

    What we first need to do is identify what the teams who are being most successful are doing in this area and understand why and likewise with the teams for whom it hasn't really worked. Then plan how our footballing structure is going to look and put it in place.

    That might not necessarily be a DoF, if we can achieve the same things in another way, but that seems like the most sensible option at the moment.

    We should probably bring in outside expertise to manage this major structural change within the club. There are plenty of organisational change specialists out there (or I would happily do it for a modest fee ).

    LAFC (who tan was recently a major shareholder) have come from nothing to absolutely smashing the MLS and have some very forward thinking approaches, even with a relatively traditional manager in Bob Bradley. Perhaps we could look at how they have gone about things as a starting point.

  8. #33

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I agree that we shouldn't just put a DoF in place and assume that everything is now set up for the next 10-15 years.

    What we first need to do is identify what the teams who are being most successful are doing in this area and understand why and likewise with the teams for whom it hasn't really worked. Then plan how our footballing structure is going to look and put it in place.

    That might not necessarily be a DoF, if we can achieve the same things in another way, but that seems like the most sensible option at the moment.

    We should probably bring in outside expertise to manage this major structural change within the club. There are plenty of organisational change specialists out there (or I would happily do it for a modest fee ).

    LAFC (who tan was recently a major shareholder) have come from nothing to absolutely smashing the MLS and have some very forward thinking approaches, even with a relatively traditional manager in Bob Bradley. Perhaps we could look at how they have gone about things as a starting point.
    Some good points there RJK.

    There are models we can follow with the size of our club and what our realistic goals are.

    The obvious one is Norwich, but Leicester are another club with a similar size fan base than who seem to be doing everything right at present.

  9. #34

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Vincent Tan's issues with Iain Moody and Malky Mackay are the reason why we will never have a director of football at the club again under his ownership.

  10. #35

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    Swansea are in a different position to us. They have football people who still have a great amount of affinity and influence at the club.

    People like Alan Curtis and Leon Britton are stalwarts who know the brand of football they want and genuinely have the clubs interests at heart.

    Even they have seen the need for a new head of recruitment to push them on to another level.

    We have nobody. I'm not sure what wily old fox means?

    Has Warnock ever left a legacy at a club. Has he shown any long term approach to signing players or building a future.
    Strangely if we took this debate back a few years we had CCMB chatter of how :

    Poorly Swansea were being run and trouble loomed for thier policy and structure,due to yanks investments or lack of .

    How well NW had done rescuing our club, languishing near the bottom of the Championship.

    Then the (wily old fox ) bought some canny players Bamba ,Etheridge ,Bennett, Holilet, Paterson.

    Wily old fox, then got fans back on side with his endless meeting of the fans in some very far flung small venues ,talked club up .

    Wily old fox, got us up against all expectations.

    Wily old fox nearly kept us up with a nothing squad.

    Wily old fox , got ground atmosphere back and attendances rose .

    Wily old fox as I see it ,in my umble view is someone who is clued in , been there , done it , knows how to manipulate people to get to his end game .

    He spots an idiot a mile off , cleverly nods his head to his masters , whilst sneakingly plotting other stuff, works the press , takes pressure of players with a bit of subterfuge.

  11. #36

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Strangely if we took this debate back a few years we had CCMB chatter of how :

    Poorly Swansea were being run and trouble loomed for thier policy and structure,due to yanks investments or lack of .

    How well NW had done rescuing our club, languishing near the bottom of the Championship.

    Then the (wily old fox ) bought some canny players Bamba ,Etheridge ,Bennett, Holilet, Paterson.

    Wily old fox, then got fans back on side with his endless meeting of the fans in some very far flung small venues ,talked club up .

    Wily old fox, got us up against all expectations.

    Wily old fox nearly kept us up with a nothing squad.

    Wily old fox , got ground atmosphere back and attendances rose .

    Wily old fox as I see it ,in my umble view is someone who is clued in , been there , done it , knows how to manipulate people to get to his end game .

    He spots an idiot a mile off , cleverly nods his head to his masters , whilst sneakingly plotting other stuff, works the press , takes pressure of players with a bit of subterfuge.
    Wily old fox didn't sign Bennett.

    Did wily old fox really do "endless" meeting of fans?

    One thing I will agree with you about is that the wily old fox knows how to manipulate!

    Wily old fox was needed three years ago a d did a superb job to get us promoted.

    I never said anything about keeping him on last year as he deserved his shot at keeping us up.

    Every club needs to show continual progression and it's impossible to stand still in this business. When he came in he had enough on his plate but now he's had 3 years and the club is showing no signs of any development.

    He's the only man capable of making footballing decisions and he has stated on numerous occasions how he intends to build a legacy for the club, yet we see no evidence of this.

    I see us like Man United before Alex Ferguson left. Our culture is about an autocratic influential guy who has built a club and squad built around him.

    He his the pillar that keeps the walls up and I believe that's how he likes it. When he disappears off into the sunset then the next manager had an almost impossible job.

    His success his built on his experience and charisma. The squad he has built is stale and dated and any attempt to move into the modern game will now be painful and require a great deal of patience.

    He should have done the right thing for the club and stood down with victory at Old Trafford instead of doing his farewell tour.

  12. #37

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by thehumblegringo View Post
    Wily old fox didn't sign Bennett.

    Did wily old fox really do "endless" meeting of fans?

    One thing I will agree with you about is that the wily old fox knows how to manipulate!

    Wily old fox was needed three years ago a d did a superb job to get us promoted.

    I never said anything about keeping him on last year as he deserved his shot at keeping us up.

    Every club needs to show continual progression and it's impossible to stand still in this business. When he came in he had enough on his plate but now he's had 3 years and the club is showing no signs of any development.

    He's the only man capable of making footballing decisions and he has stated on numerous occasions how he intends to build a legacy for the club, yet we see no evidence of this.

    I see us like Man United before Alex Ferguson left. Our culture is about an autocratic influential guy who has built a club and squad built around him.

    He his the pillar that keeps the walls up and I believe that's how he likes it. When he disappears off into the sunset then the next manager had an almost impossible job.

    His success his built on his experience and charisma. The squad he has built is stale and dated and any attempt to move into the modern game will now be painful and require a great deal of patience.

    He should have done the right thing for the club and stood down with victory at Old Trafford instead of doing his farewell tour.
    Yes, the summer would have been the ideal time for the sort of changes that are required - I can't help feeling that it would have been a better time to go for Neil Warnock as well. Although Marlon Pack is probably being talked up more than he should really be, it is sheer bad luck to lose someone with such a good record when it comes to avoiding injuries to a pretty serious one not too long into his second game for us and, without him, I can only see our current midfield, especially given Vaulks' slow start to the campaign, as being good enough to perform a holding operation which will keep us in mid table for the next couple of months - I don't think that will be viewed as good enough given the expectation levels this season.

  13. #38

    Re: And this is why we need a Director of Football

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes, the summer would have been the ideal time for the sort of changes that are required - I can't help feeling that it would have been a better time to go for Neil Warnock as well. Although Marlon Pack is probably being talked up more than he should really be, it is sheer bad luck to lose someone with such a good record when it comes to avoiding injuries to a pretty serious one not too long into his second game for us and, without him, I can only see our current midfield, especially given Vaulks' slow start to the campaign, as being good enough to perform a holding operation which will keep us in mid table for the next couple of months - I don't think that will be viewed as good enough given the expectation levels this season.
    I've been amazed recently how Marlon Pack has recently morphed into Pele in the eyes of some of our fans.

    He's an okay footballer but that's as far as it goes.
    I suspect the reason he's become so pivotal is similar to the case of Lee Tomlin, in that cos we have so few actual footballers in the squad his importance is over emphasised.

    When it comes to technical footballers we are comfortably the worst team in the league.

    If Warnock had left in the summer then the new manager probably wouldn't have spunked his money on more of the same like Warnock did.

    Whyte is the same as we already have and the money "invested" in Flint could have been used much more widely.

    We could have addressed the midfield and full back issues with the money spent on those two players.

    We perhaps could have kept Reid as he would have seen it as a fresh start.

    All of a sudden we would look like a team who is making steps forward, but now we're all longing for the return of Pack and a 34 year old Bamba who has just had ACL reconstruction!

    How our fans can't see it I don't know!

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