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Thread: Tomlin

  1. #26

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    I posted an opinion, it’s what we do on here.

    You’re the only self appointed expert on here.

    You asked me a direct question, I can’t answer it as I’m not an expert.

    For what it’s worth, running around on a training pitch and “being fit “ maybe a little different to playing. But I don’t know.
    I'm not an expert on Lee Tomlin either. However, the evidence of his statistics during the last three seasons do suggest that he rarely lasts a full game. During his first spell in City's team in 2017 he completed a full ninety minutes on just three occasions, and they were all cup matches against sides from lower divisions. Meanwhile, at Peterborough this year he started sixteen games but finished just two.

  2. #27

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    He is match fit, for 60 minutes.
    It’s more about match sharp.
    The instinctive stuff is great from him on the ball, but he’s having to work harder off it because he’s just slightly behind in his thinking.

    Fitness is a funny thing, I dragged a 20 year old gym monkey ‘semi-pro’ rugby player to 5s a few months back and he was blowing through his arse.

    Similar in my early 20s I had a season of playing rugby . I could run forever on a football pitch , but was throwing my guts up at the end of rugby training.


    Tomlin’s ‘gastric illness’ wouldn’t have helped, but also a lot of it may also be mental


    Finally, at 30 he’s probably just past his peak, so from now on he may never be a consistent 90 minute player in the role he’s playing.

  3. #28

    Re: Tomlin

    Losing weight and core fitness are entirely different things.For whatever reason he hasn't trained or played properly for a long time.Given an extended run in the side and a proper training regime suited to his situation will eventually see him last the 90.This is what the gaffer was on about when he said "its up to him".As someone else said I'd have him for an hour any day at the moment but to use a boxing parlance if he smashes it too much in training he runs the risk of "leaving it all in the gym" on matchday.

  4. #29

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by sneggyblubird View Post
    Losing weight and core fitness are entirely different things.For whatever reason he hasn't trained or played properly for a long time.
    Tomlin made more appearances for Peterborough during the second half of last season than a number of the current squad made for City. I thought he'd also been playing games for the under-23's pre-season and he played in the friendly against Nice.

    I hope I'm wrong as Tomlin's an entertaining player to watch (something most of the present team sadly aren't), but I just don't think he has it in him to play regular full games at this level. I don't think Warnock trusts him at all either, so I wouldn't be banking on seeing too much of him in the coming months.

  5. #30

    Re: Tomlin

    I'm with those who believe he's just a bit behind on his match fitness and that he's never been gifted with athletic qualities.

    The fact is though, what choice do we have? He's the only player in the squad with the speed of thought and understanding of the game to do something different.

  6. #31

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I'm not an expert on Lee Tomlin either. However, the evidence of his statistics during the last three seasons do suggest that he rarely lasts a full game. During his first spell in City's team in 2017 he completed a full ninety minutes on just three occasions, and they were all cup matches against sides from lower divisions. Meanwhile, at Peterborough this year he started sixteen games but finished just two.
    He wasn’t fit then.

    He is fit now.

    Just not match fit.

    Can’t keep going round in circles.

  7. #32

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    He wasn’t fit then.

    He is fit now.

    Just not match fit.

    Can’t keep going round in circles.
    I bow to your considerably greater knowledge.

  8. #33

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I bow to your considerably greater knowledge.
    Opinion.

    Thanks.

  9. #34

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Opinion.

    Thanks.
    Ah, an opinion, although stated in the style of a fact.

    Thanks.

  10. #35

    Re: Tomlin

    Tomlin had a great chance from a free kick late in the game where, not only did he not even test the wall never mind the keeper with his tired effort, he clumsily fouled the defender straight after the block and got booked.
    That summed Tomlin up for me.

    Yes, everybody knows he has ability that many pro footballers only dream of, but the glimpses of his talents are very few and far between.

    The guy is living on past glories and though he may occasionally show something a bit different, we see these people all the time at various levels.
    IMHO he is playing above his level. A level where stamina is key.

    Impact player when we need something different who can still play a big part this season but I concur with a previous post, the messiah he certainly is not.

  11. #36

    Re: Tomlin

    Reading this thread, reminds me of how lucky we were to have a player of Whittinghams ability and durability for so many seasons.
    I tend to agree with TLG. As good as Tomlin can be at times, I don’t think we’ll ever see a full 90 mins in a City shirt.

  12. #37

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Ah, an opinion, although stated in the style of a fact.

    Thanks.
    If you insist.

    Noticed you can’t be wrong.

  13. #38

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Tomlin had a great chance from a free kick late in the game where, not only did he not even test the wall never mind the keeper with his tired effort, he clumsily fouled the defender straight after the block and got booked.
    That summed Tomlin up for me.

    Yes, everybody knows he has ability that many pro footballers only dream of, but the glimpses of his talents are very few and far between.

    The guy is living on past glories and though he may occasionally show something a bit different, we see these people all the time at various levels.
    IMHO he is playing above his level. A level where stamina is key.

    Impact player when we need something different who can still play a big part this season but I concur with a previous post, the messiah he certainly is not.
    It was a free kick just outside the box , hardly a great chance.....
    He did indeed fluff his lines though and shortly after he was hauled off. He was knackered , I cant argue with others who state he doesn't last the pace , what I see though is a game changer when he is on , no matter the level, he is a game changer , a unique footballer that every side needs .
    Perhaps running around the pitch like a headless chicken to impress Warnocks draconian style is a waste of his talents, its certainly a waste of his limited energy.

  14. #39

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    what I see though is a game changer when he is on , no matter the level, he is a game changer , a unique footballer that every side needs .
    Perhaps running around the pitch like a headless chicken to impress Warnocks draconian style is a waste of his talents, its certainly a waste of his limited energy.
    What he said

  15. #40

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    It was a free kick just outside the box , hardly a great chance.....
    He did indeed fluff his lines though and shortly after he was hauled off. He was knackered , I cant argue with others who state he doesn't last the pace , what I see though is a game changer when he is on , no matter the level, he is a game changer , a unique footballer that every side needs .
    Perhaps running around the pitch like a headless chicken to impress Warnocks draconian style is a waste of his talents, its certainly a waste of his limited energy.
    Agree to a certain extent, but a decent midfielder in the mould of Tomlin, who can spray about defence splitting passes, and hold on to the ball when needed, expends less energy than any of his team mates except the keeper.
    Surely it’s not too much to ask, to get one that can see out a whole game?

  16. #41

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    He wasn’t fit then.

    He is fit now.

    Just not match fit.

    Can’t keep going round in circles.
    The thing is we don't really know whether this is as fit as he gets or whether he does suffer with his stamina. I suppose time will tell if he's given a run of games. I've noticed that Tomlin does buzz about alot, making runs and supporting the player with the ball, in fact he's quite unique in our team in that he passes and moves, i suspect that takes alot out of him. You can see that he goes hard for the first 30 minutes, maybe that's an instruction from the manager due to his stamina issues, mybe Tomlin is aware of it and decides to give everything while he can. I'd be surprised if we saw Tomlin play consistently for a full 90 minutes, he'd have to make up alot of fitness to sustain his style of play for another 30 minutes. Here's hopling though.

  17. #42

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock View Post
    Everything good came through him . Blackburn’s defence was cut open time and time again by his passes .
    After he went off we never made another chance of note , we just huffed and puffed.Blackburn actually came into the game and made a few chances of their own .
    Ok so some of us are giving marks for the ability to run around energetically for 90 minutes “ hard working “ ..... we seem to have quite a few of that sort , not sure you can win football matches without players who can actually play football with a degree of skill .
    Tomlin can play football , I will take his 60 minutes every game .
    This. Every time.

  18. #43

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Agree to a certain extent, but a decent midfielder in the mould of Tomlin, who can spray about defence splitting passes, and hold on to the ball when needed, expends less energy than any of his team mates except the keeper.
    Surely it’s not too much to ask, to get one that can see out a whole game?
    How do they expand less energy? A player in his position has to be constantly on the move looking to receive the ball and join the attack.

    Pack, when fit, is the player who should be picking the ball up off the defence and spraying it like you described. Not the attacking midfielder who has to link with the midfield and the forwards do constantly on the move.

  19. #44

    Re: Tomlin

    If Lee Tomlin could charge around a football field like a headless chicken for 90 minutes with his undoubted technical ability he wouldn’t be playing for Cardiff City.

    As someone had already said losing weight and being match sharp / fit are completely different.

    He hasn’t had a proper pre season either, not featured as much as the others, and then struck down with illness.

    Hopefully the more games he gets under his belt his stamina will pick up.

    Look at Paterson, he hasn’t had a proper pre season and it’s showed. He’s been awful in every game he’s played so far and unlike Tomlin he doesn’t have the technical ability to fall back on when he can’t put in a full shift.

    Give me a 60 minute Tomlin over a trier like Paterson any day.

  20. #45

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    If Lee Tomlin could charge around a football field like a headless chicken for 90 minutes with his undoubted technical ability he wouldn’t be playing for Cardiff City.
    I don't think anyone has suggested Tomlin should charge around the field like a headless chicken for ninety minutes. Based on the evidence of recent seasons, his ability to last ninety minutes under any circumstances is questionable, but I guess we'll see if he can during the coming weeks provided Warnock gives him a run in the side.

  21. #46

    Re: Tomlin

    listened to game yesterday but not watched it. Would Tomlin be better used as a 65 70 minute sub when defenders are getting mentally and physically tired?

  22. #47

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by J R Hartley View Post
    How do they expand less energy? A player in his position has to be constantly on the move looking to receive the ball and join the attack.

    Pack, when fit, is the player who should be picking the ball up off the defence and spraying it like you described. Not the attacking midfielder who has to link with the midfield and the forwards do constantly on the move.
    But he’s not making lung bursting runs is he?
    Players like Ray Wilkins, Glen Hoddle etc, never broke into a sweat. Not say Tomlin is anywhere near their class, but talented midfielders do not expend as much energy as some strikers or defenders. That my friend is a fact.

  23. #48

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    But he’s not making lung bursting runs is he?
    Players like Ray Wilkins, Glen Hoddle etc, never broke into a sweat. Not say Tomlin is anywhere near their class, but talented midfielders do not expend as much energy as some strikers or defenders. That my friend is a fact.
    He’s not playing in the same position as Hoddle or Wilkins you doughnut.

    He’s about 30 yards further forward.

    We also don’t keep the ball like a lot of the top teams do and so our players have to spend a lot of time chasing possession or fighting for 2nd balls.

    I’m sure if Tomlin player in a side of the quality Wilkins and Hoddle did then he wouldn’t have to run about like he does for Cardiff.

    I know we play 1980s style football but why reference 2 players from 40 years ago anyway? Bizarre.

  24. #49

    Re: Tomlin

    I think he looks very sharp in the first half which would suggest he's at least close to match fit. Maybe this will improve over the next month, but I don't think he's going to be a 90 minute player. He's 30 and his overall fitness and in particular his stamina seems to be waning. Having said that he's probably our most gifted, and has the potential to be, our most effective player. I say we persevere.

  25. #50

    Re: Tomlin

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    But he’s not making lung bursting runs is he?
    Players like Ray Wilkins, Glen Hoddle etc, never broke into a sweat. Not say Tomlin is anywhere near their class, but talented midfielders do not expend as much energy as some strikers or defenders. That my friend is a fact.
    Wilkins and Hoddle played in an era when there were probably only two or three players per squad that took their diet/fitness/lifestyle seriously. If you were blessed with natural talent you could run rings around lesser players. You can't get away with that anymore. Everybody is expected to work their arse off and maintain 100% concentration the whole time they're on the pitch.

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